October 27, 2009 at 3:55 pm
I just have to ask this...
Would you be concerned if you noticed that some local resident had pointed a security camera right at your child's daycare center building?
October 28, 2009 at 2:17 am
j.a.c (10/27/2009)
I just have to ask this...Would you be concerned if you noticed that some local resident had pointed a security camera right at your child's daycare center building?
I would hope that the day centre had it own security cameras, and I wouldnt hesitate in 'talking' to this local resident to explain why he/she felt the need to provide extra 'security'.
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October 28, 2009 at 8:07 am
Simple answer, Yes. I'd talk to the Day Care administration about this.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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October 28, 2009 at 8:19 am
Agree with Jack. I'd talk to the Day Care, and possibly the police. No need for you to do it and escalate things unnecessarily. they might have a kid there.
October 28, 2009 at 10:01 am
I would be a little concerned on two fronts:
1) Possibly the neighbor has a child and has noticed things happening to the child, reported it to the daycare center and nothing has happened.
2) And the obvious creepy side of it.
Or maybe the neighbor has noticed questionable activity at the center and wanted to be able to provide evidence.
No matter the scenario, I would certainly talk to the center and the neighbor before escalating to police. Get a feel for body language without being overly obvious to either party - and then based on body language talk to the police.
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October 28, 2009 at 10:16 am
Even if you have concerns, what can you really do about it?
Are there any laws that restrict where a security camera can be pointed when it is an outside area?
October 28, 2009 at 10:36 am
Michael Valentine Jones (10/28/2009)
Even if you have concerns, what can you really do about it?Are there any laws that restrict where a security camera can be pointed when it is an outside area?
Not sure about the US, but in the UK, there are restrictions. also depends if it is a company or an individual doing it.
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October 28, 2009 at 11:23 am
You might be concerned, but there is really nothing you can do about it. If the camera points at a space that is visible to the public there is no expectation of privacy. The police can't make any demands, nor can you, nor can the day care center's admin. The owner of the camera doesn't have to answer ANY questions or even talk to the police any further than "here is my identification", I chose not to discuss this with you, and no you may not come in..
I am curious why they would point a camera in that direction. But I can think of a lot of what I would consider "valid" reasons to do this. From having a child there to knowing that there has been some un/under reported crime in that area. It could also be a dummy camera, or what it sees isn't what YOU think it is. Or they could be an offender, but if they were then they would likely be in violation of the law and putting up a camera would be pretty stupid and a beacon to come see them..
But I would stress that you had better be careful about YOUR behavior towards them because if you harass them THEY can take legal action against you and you concern isn't going to be much of a defense.
CEWII
Edit: I am specifically refering to the laws in the US.
October 28, 2009 at 1:27 pm
They could have the camera there because they are annoyed by people dropping off their kids blocking traffic, blocking their driveway, denting their car, making noise, etc.
October 28, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Sure there may be many valid reasons for it to be there, but I'd still be concerned and do something to find out why it is there.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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October 28, 2009 at 3:20 pm
I would try to contact that person and ask in a most gentle way something like
"Would you mind sharing your reason for having that camera up there? I have kids in that center so I'm wondering..."
I think there's nothing offending in asking that way. And for sure I would ask the same question if this would happen at the Kindergarten my youngest goes to.
At the beginning I wouldn't be concerned but curious.
If the answer to my question wouldn't be straight and "valid" (as per my own definition), I'd be concerned...
October 28, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I think this is a case of a 'concerned citizen' taking NIMBY to the extreme. This is a new day care that has been delayed for months due to complaints by this person. From complaining that the children can be seen through the glass walled outdoor play area to yelling obscenities to parents who tie up their dogs outside while dropping their kids off and even calling the city if a parent has been parked too long, there just seems no end to it.
The camera was a recent development and I have a feeling that it is not just for 'security purposes' but to gather more evidence for future complaints to the city.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if this was not a daycare but a womans' gym and the camera was trained on one of the windows?
The police were called but I doubt if anything can be done...
October 28, 2009 at 4:17 pm
I fully agree with asking, or having the admin at the center ask, prevents you from being directly involved (ie liability, harasment, etc.). Definitely do this.
The underlying problem is that if they don't give you (or the person who asked) a satisfactory (to you) answer what are you going to do? Take your kids out of the center? That really is your only legal answer.
The police can't do anything but ask, and he (assuming he) doesn't have to answer or provide anything other than his identification. And you can't MAKE him do anything in this regard. I bring this up because we live in a legalistic society and don't want you to do something that gets YOU into legal trouble, like going over and taking the camera down for him..
CEWII
October 28, 2009 at 4:29 pm
j.a.c (10/28/2009)
..snip..The camera was a recent development and I have a feeling that it is not just for 'security purposes' but to gather more evidence for future complaints to the city.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if this was not a daycare but a womans' gym and the camera was trained on one of the windows?
The police were called but I doubt if anything can be done...
It is very likely about further evidence. Regardless of the reason, still legal..
You bring up the woman's gym, and the answer is the same, it isn't illegal in almost all cases. If you can see in while walking by then it is legal (99.999999% of the time). About the only time when it is "clearly" illegal is when there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, and there are exceptions to that as well..
Case in point, you can't be considered a peeping tom if a window in your house overlooks or can see into a window of your neighbors. They might put on quite a show if the don't close the blinds.. In that case I am a little fuzzy about the recording issue, it is much less clear, probably legal, but not sure. But if someone was standing on the sidewalk filming into your front-room, I think you would be hard pressed to stop it..
Good luck to the police, but don't count on anything changing, especially if this guy knows ANYTHING about the law..
CEWII
October 28, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Elliot brought up a couple issues where you or the cops or the city can't do anything about the stuff that person is doing.
But look at it from the other side:
What is the "real value" of that camera?
If that person takes pictures of kids "can be seen through the glass walled outdoor play area", so what? Afaik it's not illegal if kids are playing.
If that person takes pictures of parents parking "too long", so what? Afaik such "evidence" cannot be used at court against the person that parked the car.
From my point of view it looks like all the camera is good for is to use the material when complaining to the city.
So, the interesting question is:
How the city reps are going to deal with that individual?
Maybe the center admin should talk to the city. What you've told so far, chances are good that the city will support your (or the center) position rather than this person.
I'd say: let the authorities fight that battle...
The other option would be: try to convince that person that kids are nothing to be afraid of or to fight against: give that fellow some positive attention: send him a few pictures the kids have drawn from the center (about what they like), let the kids make some small Xmas presents for him.
Talk to him what he wanted to have changed most and see if you can move a little bit towards his direction (e.g. if he doesn't like the plain glass around the playground: paint some flowers, or anything like this on it. Maybe the kids don't like the plain glass wall either...).
Always keep one thing in mind: when two neighbors start a "battle", there won't be a winner but two "victims".
Btw: I live right across a Kindergarten. The only value a camera would have to me at the moment is to get some Halloween party pictures. It's just great to see how much fun those kids have!
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