Why are Women exiting It?
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This article came with the DataBase Daily on 2/5.
http://www.infoworld.com/archives/t.jsp?N=s&V=85398
I read the article, it said only 16% of women working in network and computer system administration in 2006 down from 23.4% in 2000. Only 27% of women worked in computer and math position in 2006 down from 30% in 2000. It said it was because technology changes so fast, it is hard for a woman to keep up with the technology while raising a family. 74% of women employed fulltime have spouse/partner employed fulltime. By contrast, 75% men employed fulltime have a spouse/partner staying at home.
When a woman takes time off after having a child for a while, it is difficult to get back into the market considing the pace of technology moving so fast.
I remembered when my son was an infant, my company promoted a junior programmer who had 4 years of programming experiences to senior programmer while I had 8 years of experiences at that time. I asked the manager if there was something that I did not do right so I did not get the promotion. The manager said my skill was the best among all programmers, but since I had to leave at 5:00pm everyday, that was why they could not give me the promotion. I could take it to complain to HR but I didn't. I started my day at 7:30am and worked until 5:00pm. If I did not finish my work, I came back and worked on weekends. The junior programmer stayed until 7:00pm every day because she did not come in until 10:00am. The CEO and the former CEO who became the consultant of the company would not give anyone to do their work except me. But the VP of IT still thought going home at 5:00pm was big factor in promotion.
The daycare called me at 11:30am and told me my son had chickenpox. I went to pick him up and took him home. At 1:30pm I received a call from my manager asking me when I would return to work. That was the last straw. I sent out my resume on that day. The CEO came to my cube and said goodbye to me when I left the company. The most ironic thing was the VP was fired six months after I left.
In the article it said that it was hard to walk out the office at 5:00pm while other male programmers were still working. However the article said actually women were good at multi-tasking, accepting changes and creating changes. I worked with many women who were very talented. However in IT who was dominated by men, women continue to face challenge.
Also women's salary is still lower than men's salary even they held the same position, or sometime the women had more experience than men.
my 2 cents.
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I actually think that the situation arises far further back in education. I'm not a great lover of the ( english ) eduction system, an obsession with statistics has lowered the value of any exams to almost zero - but i digress - computers are still I think seen as a lad think rathetr than a girl thing - girls and boys make different use of computers, my daughters ( 3 ) all make extensive use of computers ( none in IT ) but at a totally different level. When I was at school there wasn't computing but I do remember instances of boys being denied the chance of taking needlework/dressmaking and/or cooking .. this harks back many years. I'm not sure that many young people are that interested in IT as a career these days, certainly my perception in the UK ( possibly wrongly ) is that girls are more interested in art/media studies non technical/scientific subjects or becoming a contestant on big brother, pop idol or a footballers wife.
I'm not going to get into the pay/promotion stuff as it's a subject fraught with danger and little hard documented proof. All I'll say is that my experiences of working for women haven't been too promising - I agree there aren't many women in IT, but I have/do work with them and as a contractor those lady DBA's I've met make the same rate as the men.
To be blunt responsibilities and availablity have to make part of the decision making process, being the best programmer doesn't mean you'll make a good manager - I consider myself an able DBA, but I make a rubbish manager and I know it. Everyone cannot be equal, although I do support same wages for same job, however from a male point of view when measures are forced upon us to alter the balance, e.g. needing more female MP's in the UK, short lists are drawn up of women only - there's been a classic case of a fire service in the scottish islands that has been penalised for not making it's ethnic %age ( issue is only white scots live on the island ) or a police force that rejected white recruits purely beacuse it had to make a %age ethnic recutiment.
Maybe women don't see IT as their thing, vive la difference ?
[font="Comic Sans MS"]The GrumpyOldDBA[/font]
www.grumpyolddba.co.uk
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/ -
Tuppunce from a naive 26-year-old male:
I believe that generic articles stating that 'women receive less pay than men in the male-dominated sector of IT' contribute to the lack of women in IT.
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"To be blunt responsibilities and availability have to make part of the decision making process, being the best programmer doesn't mean you'll make a good manager"
Liked that ...
From my point of view it is not important that who you are ?
To be successful is both professional and personal life you need to have lots of discipline, determination and smartness.
You should be able to handle any issue smartly, and for that you should know what you are doing and whether if this is right or wrong. If this can be completed within the specified amount of time.
About the personal front, with good communication skill and helping nature and yes loads of positive attitude, you will be able to maintain a harmony in the family relationship.
Even though I am a women I am following this and I am able to balance both, But Yes it is difficult.
Rule I follow:- Note down the important task
- Prioritize them
- Allot time with deadline
- Monitor it
Minaz Amin"More Green More Oxygen !! Plant a tree today"
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as I'm somewhat in the "older" category I suppose I don't notice some of what goes on, and as I'm independent ( consultant/contractor ) the politics at work rarely touch that part of my work. I do have three daughters , one of which is zig zagging up the corporate ladder best she can ( not in IT ) ( she's seen as a bit pushy I believe !! ) I don't think she has had any problems in the male/female thing. Before I did IT I worked in the catering industry for 20 years ( hotels and restaurants ) there's not really any discrimation there ( or I'd like to think so ) and I worked with/for both male and female managers.
The other point is that sometimes you just don't really fit, no matter how good you are, and this is good because there should be some element of randomness in life - it's sad when it happens and it did to me several times in my hotel management career, which is why I went into IT.
I try to be relaxed ( laid back? ) as stress, worry, bitterness(?) only make you grow old before your time < grin >
[font="Comic Sans MS"]The GrumpyOldDBA[/font]
www.grumpyolddba.co.uk
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/ -
My brother's programming group recently had an opening for an applications programmer who would be programming against an Informix database, using the Informix programming language. The way the position was advertised required Informix and Unix experience, even though only one programmer on the team had any Informix experience when hired. No women met the criteria for an interview, and almost all of the people interviewed came from highly technical backgrounds, with very little if any application programming experience. Only because the company has a policy of interviewing all internal candidates did they end up hiring someone (male) from within the company, an experienced application programmer. And only after all the external candidates turned the position down.
The point of my story is that the skills required to be an applications programmer are at least as much analytical as they are technical, but that's much harder for a hiring officer to discern. It's easier to have a checklist of technical experience that applicants meet. That way, when it doesn't work out, managers can at least say 'well, (s)he had all these qualifications'.
This is not to say that women are less likely to have technical skills than men are. And I don't want to stereotype women as being more able to communicate with end users than men are (I know my brother is way better at that than I am). But it's important for managers to understand what skills are truly needed to perform a job, and evaluate accordingly.
Mattie
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I figure ultimately that in general terms women don't find IT appealing, now I don't know if that's to do with mainly males working in IT or the men are from mars, women are from venus syndrome. I suspect the latter. I still think early school eduction is partly to blame.
[font="Comic Sans MS"]The GrumpyOldDBA[/font]
www.grumpyolddba.co.uk
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/ -
Is it that women are "leaving" IT or is it that there is a surge of males entering IT. Could it be, instead, that a surge of males is diluting the percentage of women in IT?
We need to be careful of statistics because we may draw incomplete/inaccurate conclusions.
There is not enough information given above to state definitively that "women are leaving IT".
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"Is it that women are "leaving" IT..."
In any industry sector, you will have people "leaving" to work in another sector and Newbies coming in. I think in IT, it's more a case of there are more women leavers than there are women newbies.
"in general terms women don't find IT appealing... early school eduction is partly to blame"
A quick paraphrasing I know! I do agree with this. I also think that educational establishments do not do enough to raise IT awareness and induce interest within the female community. I also think that in today's schools and colleges it is not 'cool' to be a female with an interest in IT.
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Interesting discussions. I've actually solicited some guest editorials next week on this, so keep an eye out and I'd love to see the discussion continued.
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Women leave IT because the IT culture is not compatible with motherhood. I was in IT, having somewhat fallen into it, in the 1990s. I didn't have kids then, but what I observed was scary. I remember watching a woman's career being ruined by her childcare responsibilities. She was often out when they were sick and had to leave at 5 pm every day, even though the company had a "late" culture (I worked 10 - 7 and my manager thought that was fantastic). She had screaming fights with the manager for missing 5 pm meetings and was no longer assigned meaningful work. When my kid was born in 2001, I quit. I would have been an idiot to try to keep working there.
After four years, I decided to re-enter the workforce. I had a lot of experience in databases and PowerBuilder and a mechanical engineering degree, but it was all at least four years old. Every recruiter was skeptical. One recruiter said, "Seeing as you're in parenting mode, how do you feel about travel?" I was turned down for temp jobs. I had to take tests to prove my competence. I got 95% on a PowerBuilder 6 test--really surprised that recruiter, I think she gave me the test to get me to go away. I was advised to spend a year or so taking community college classes. Some of the people I talked to were incredulous that I thought I could get a job based on "ancient" experience.
I never got an IT job. But, a recruiter noticed my engineering degree and programming experience. I'm now working as an engineer integrating software and control systems. I've learned C# .NET and SQL 2005, no problem, it's not so different from what I did before. I got a bunch of certifications (paid for by my employer) so I can prove to our customers that I'm up-to-date.
The focus on the latest-and-greatest is ridiculous. In technology, there are just a few core skills: the ability to self-train quickly, problem analysis and solution, and attention to detail. For programmers or other designers, add the ability to design solutions. Anyone who has these skills can be a superstar if allowed to perform at a high level.
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For women who have children, especially small children, I think any professional career path is going to be a difficult one. When both parents work full-time, there's always the morning juggle and afternoon struggle - which spouse has meetings, which ones are more important, who can't get out of commitments, etc. And in my family, anything "extra" like doctor appointments, etc. are always my responsibility (translates to taking PTO).
However, in my own personal experience, being in IT is what has given me the freedom to work a more flexible schedule and be able to keep my son home if he is sick, etc. As a mortgage lender I had to be in front of my customers during bank hours. As a business analyst, I had to be in front of the user groups during their business hours. As a developer however, I have a considerably longer leash and a more flexible day. This is not to say I don't still have to travel or work late or get in my car at 6:30 am for an early meeting, because it still happens - but I get more cooperation from my husband since he knows it's not everyday.
That being said - I must preface that I have worked very hard to build a reputation of being accountable and responsible to earn that flexibility. I don't think that as a woman, or as a developer, I am "due" that privilege and I know that it could be revoked at any time so I am always careful to not take it for granted or abuse it. Additionally, I must make sure I always do "face time," staying off the radar is a good way to be de-valued.
As for women not having a mind for technology - that's just silly. That's like saying men don't have a mind for cooking.
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Having been a woman in IT for over 25 years, I can't speak to why women might be leaving it. However, I've never had children! Reviewing the ads for jobs does leave the impression that if you are not up on the hottest latest greatest programming language/platform, getting a job could be tough. Since it's mostly women who delay their careers during their children's youngest ages, they are the most likely gender to drop out of IT and then attempt to re-enter it. I think the hiring managers attitude that knowing the hot new language is a preeq for employment is harmful to the industry, and I agree with the "other" Stephanie that the core values are more important.
Anyone who thinks that women in generally just don't have an IT mindset should review the history of IT. The first programmers were women, because men did not generally know how to type (we're back in the keypunch era, here). Secretaries were trained to be programmers. Then when the salaries started getting into the range where they would support a family, men started getting into the act. And since hiring managers are still mostly male, and most managers still have a preference for hiring people like themselves, it's almost inevitable that we'll see this sort of trend. (I'm not saying all male hiring managers deliberately choose men over women - but the words "all things being equal" show up a lot in the hiring process, and someone who has been out of the workforce for a few years is not seen as being "equal".)
The other question to ask is "where are the women going who drop out of IT"? I'd be interested in seeing how many are starting their own business, or branching out into other careers. That might shed a whole new light, because IT skills aren't limited to IT jobs anymore!
Here there be dragons...,Steph Brown
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just in case any of my posts are taken as stating that I think women don't have the mind for IT - that's not what I intended - what i intended is that maybe the female perception of IT is male, and education/schooling perception does nothing to take this away ( the old stereotype issue ) therefore the overall feeling is that IT is not for women - a sort of self perpetuated brain washing.
As to the childcare issue - well I don't have an answer for that and I'm not sure there is a solution. Taking time out is another poor perception, a good friend , DBA, took time out to do a masters, agencies ( and here's another subject matter ) tried to tell him he'd struggle getting a job as he had been out of it - he didn't - but a barrier was raised.
I agree with Steve, interesting discussion.
[font="Comic Sans MS"]The GrumpyOldDBA[/font]
www.grumpyolddba.co.uk
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/ -
Woking in IT is HARD !
Being a woman and working in IT is extremely HARD !!
Being a woman and a MOM working in IT is SUPER, SUPER HARD !!!
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