April 23, 2009 at 11:28 am
Actually, I am not in favor of outsourcing. But there are good and bad coders both in and out of the USA.
Quality should be the top priority of any company, not saving money.
April 23, 2009 at 11:50 am
Robert Davis (4/23/2009)
Actually, I am not in favor of outsourcing. But there are good and bad coders both in and out of the USA.Quality should be the top priority of any company, not saving money.
My apologies, Robert... I seriously mistook what you said previously. I absolutely agree with what you said above.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 23, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I never got good technical support. if it has to come back and we have to fix it here again then why not build it here initially. its lobbyist trust me who favor outsourcing. i dnot know if you already know they get paid for it big times. I am hiring a lobbyist who can go to INDIA and get work from there and bring it here. How is that. i would love to see work coming to USA from other countries. How that sounds. lol
Is INDIA and china ready to out source to US.
I have on solution for all this and don't laugh. lets bring dollar value to NULL and see if we get people outsource to US. I am sure they will. I think president is taking us in that direction with such big bailouts and huge inflatiopn waiting for us in coming months where dollar will loose value.
Imagine if whole world have once currency would we still outsource?????? :hehe:
:crazy: :alien:
Umar Iqbal
April 23, 2009 at 2:50 pm
umar iqbal (4/23/2009)
I have on solution for all this and don't laugh. lets bring dollar value to NULL
Heh... I thought it was already there. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 23, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Jeff Moden (4/23/2009)
umar iqbal (4/23/2009)
I have on solution for all this and don't laugh. lets bring dollar value to NULLHeh... I thought it was already there. 😀
Considering that "null" technically means an unknowable value, yeah, I'd say we've pretty much got that.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 23, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Chirag,
Heh... man, I can only imagine some of the legacy code you must get from some folks. That's gotta be a nightmare especially when there's no documentation anywhere especially in the code.
I tend to get a little hot on the subject of outsourcing because I've had such bad luck with it and so many of my skilled friends have been laid off so someone can save a bit of money. And, at my previous company, it didn't save anything. It cost a Million dollars for 3 months of work and nothing they gave us met the spec we gave them. In fact, the whole project was useless because the code just didn't work. Then, our company turned around and put us on mandatory unpaid overtime and told us we had to have it done in a month because the deadline hadn't changed.
I imagine that outsourcing can work... I've just never seen it work as expected. I also tend to be a countryman... when I hear of things like Chrylser outsourcing it's entire IT department in Auburn Hills and IBM moving so many jobs out of the country that's been so good to them, I just can't help being sour on outsourcing and the fleecing of my home country. Even my old company wanted me to train some guy from overseas so he could take a job an money out of my country... that's why I now work for another company... that was the last straw and I quit.
Robert Davis said it correctly above... companies should be more concerned about quality than price. I'll agree that a balance must be struck, but most of the folks holding the purse string for companies simply don't know how to spell the word "quality".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 23, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Jeff Moden is the best, if we don't know let's learn from him.
Umar Iqbal, if you don't mind me asking, what's your ethnic background, just curious. I guess you are not Indian descent, as long as your comments are not political all the power to you.
I am with you about outsourcing=job loss issue. You thought Obama is going to change that :laugh: ? What I read is that companies contributed the most to democratic party this time, they knew no matter who ran, democrats would win given the political environment.
Bribe is a synonym for campaign contributions, why are we allowing such synonyms?.
We need to unionize IT, like teachers, police, electricians, need a strong union desperately, nothing else will stop job losses, don't rely on your excellent skills or on congressmen and great senators. Public school teachers and police officers make over 125K and retire with full life time benefits at age 50. I know a mathematician who got a masters degree from Oxford worked as a programmer for decades got laid off.
April 23, 2009 at 8:27 pm
samiam914 i am just kidding . i dont have money for lobbyist. hahahahha but you know it really hurts me when i see a very technical person loses his/her job in usa. i know companies want to save money but we need strong technical person also. i am not saying other part of world is not good in it. I personally have seen that a US technical prson is atleast 60 to 70% more technical then anyone else. It just my experiance. I litterly had to teach someone in other country how to do stuff when they were supporting our system.
Ethnically, I am US citizen .hahahhahahahah. lol Egypt
and I proud to be an american
where atleast i feel i am free
lol;-)
:crazy: :alien:
Umar Iqbal
April 24, 2009 at 12:07 am
Jeff Moden (4/23/2009)
Chirag,Heh... man, I can only imagine some of the legacy code you must get from some folks. That's gotta be a nightmare especially when there's no documentation anywhere especially in the code.
I tend to get a little hot on the subject of outsourcing because I've had such bad luck with it and so many of my skilled friends have been laid off so someone can save a bit of money. And, at my previous company, it didn't save anything. It cost a Million dollars for 3 months of work and nothing they gave us met the spec we gave them. In fact, the whole project was useless because the code just didn't work. Then, our company turned around and put us on mandatory unpaid overtime and told us we had to have it done in a month because the deadline hadn't changed.
I imagine that outsourcing can work... I've just never seen it work as expected. I also tend to be a countryman... when I hear of things like Chrylser outsourcing it's entire IT department in Auburn Hills and IBM moving so many jobs out of the country that's been so good to them, I just can't help being sour on outsourcing and the fleecing of my home country. Even my old company wanted me to train some guy from overseas so he could take a job an money out of my country... that's why I now work for another company... that was the last straw and I quit.
Robert Davis said it correctly above... companies should be more concerned about quality than price. I'll agree that a balance must be struck, but most of the folks holding the purse string for companies simply don't know how to spell the word "quality".
My sympathies jeff for your bad outsourcing experiences and yeah i am a countryman too. I can understand when our friends get laid off and that their jobs are outsourced. That must be tough for them and their near and dear ones.
As i pointed out it works both ways and the success depends on how things are managed. It also depens on what kind of work is outsourced to whom. For ex:- if someone outsourced some work to me and expects me to keep the quality of work to that of yours probably he would be disappointed.
But no excuses for rank bad work...
"Keep Trying"
April 25, 2009 at 5:14 am
@umar iqbal
I am hiring a lobbyist who can go to INDIA and get work from there and bring it here. How is that. i would love to see work coming to USA from other countries. How that sounds. lol
Is INDIA and china ready to out source to US.
I have on solution for all this and don't laugh. lets bring dollar value to NULL and see if we get people outsource to US.
INDIA (or any other country) will surely wel come you if you take any step towards removing globalised unemployment.
“Stop thinking, Start doing”
"Don't limit your challenges, challenge your limits"
April 25, 2009 at 10:52 am
In a perfect world all are equal regardless of how intelligent one is, every one gets same salary and benefits, and every one works with honesty up to their full capacity no matter which part of the world they live in. This is true socialism where every one is honest. I am waiting for this day, but it will never come.
So, until then other countries should not depend on jobs from US, only way people in other countries will get jobs from US is when people in US lose their jobs, is this what people in other countries want? it is not right, instead they should develop their own economies.
April 25, 2009 at 10:54 am
umar iqbal (4/23/2009)
and I proud to be an americanwhere atleast i feel i am free
Gosh, Umar, I wish some of the folks born here felt the same way. Thank you for the thought, Sir.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 25, 2009 at 11:03 am
Heh... enough about outsourcing. I don't care what country anyone is from, here's to all the good people that "try" and do what's right every bloody day... and damn those that don't. 🙂
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 28, 2009 at 6:48 am
Somehow companies got the idea that software is a commodity and that anybody can develop it. The only difference is cost. Why wouldn't you go for the cheapest price if that was your belief?
There are a lot of good developers the world over. There are also a lot of bad ones. Sometimes I think the bad outnumber the good. For every good outsourcing experience there are an equal number of bad ones.
April 29, 2009 at 9:07 am
We've had decent luck with a small shop in Idaho. They're pretty close on the time zones, they work fairly cheap and most of them speak English pretty well ( 😛 Hi Guys!).
The reason we did it was that after some staff churn we were basically out of developers who knew our legacy code base. Since we were moving away from it aggressively there was little value in spending time on gearing up for maintenance on projects that were scheduled for replacement. The guys also take on other stuff as needed, which is nice. And it relieves us from the nasty aspects of staffing seats that'll probably get cut first in a tight spot. It worked out pretty well once they learned the code and its many, um, quirks.
That said, I did work with a giant Indian consulting factory at my last Fortune 500 job and that was hard. Because of their churn, a lot of tasks were started from scratch instead of built with knowledge of the last request. And the time shift meant everyone communicated either through one harried liason or via email. Sometimes when you can't just talk to another developer on the phone or in person it doesn't matter what the language is, it's just difficult. And I'd say doubly so when you need to explain how some old bondo and bailing twine system works. We found that that relationship worked best when it was either new work where they just had to hit requirements or old systems that we'd never take back (ie 70s era insurance systems writen in assembler -- blech.) When you try to develop *with* them or pass ownership of code back and forth you get a mess. YMMV of course.
[font="Arial"]Are you lost daddy? I asked tenderly.
Shut up he explained.[/font]
- Ring Lardner
Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 78 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply