April 22, 2009 at 10:53 am
Guys this is funni,
I thought Obama will be bringing big time change. I voted for him. The very first thing i expected him to do is stop outsourcing or atleast stop outsourcing US government projects. But I am very disappointed. As far as I know companies started to outsource to india even faster since Obama become president. I think its because of all the financial crisis and they want to save more. But how can they forget that if Americans would not have job they would not spend. I am not completely against out sourcing but there should be defined limits on it. We should not outsource atleast US government projects. Its scary !
I would strongly recommend to file petition to stop outsourcing and make our voice heard. Did any one started that already I would like to sign it 🙂
FYI,
We have very telented manpower in US which is currently being wasted as outsourcing making stronger roots in US soil.
I think outsourcing is slow death of economy but it just my opinion. Its even worse than terrorist attack as in that you die rigth away but outsourcing kills you slowly slowly everyday. but again this is just my opinion.
Please open petition so we can stop outsourcing.
Oh what about all that H1 visa thing. Companies are firing and laying off us citizens and US companies are asking for more H1. Whats wrong with us. On top of it Obama is bailing out these companies. weired.
:crazy: :alien:
Umar Iqbal
April 22, 2009 at 11:59 am
What you just described is in-sourcing (that's what I call it)
H1-B visa workers are used for insourcing, who I believe are granted temporary work visas for a total of 7 years.
There is also I believe various other forms of visas, one of them is called L1-visa (?), where a company opens an outlet in another country, and hires them locally and sends them to USA. This practice is similar to some one getting hired in NY office and then asked to locate to LA office for a period of few months/years and then come back to NY office, in this case of course only US residents/citizens are allowed, where as internationally no such rules apply.
April 22, 2009 at 10:47 pm
I don't know anything about the economics or the politics of outsourcing, but I do know that I currently work with some extremely talented people in India and China and Europe.
April 23, 2009 at 12:31 am
Heh... there's some extremely talented folks right here in the U.S.A....
Here's your function...
[font="Courier New"]--===== Create the "strip tags" function using a typical While Loop
-- (by Robert Davis)
Create Function dbo.fnStripTags
(@Dirty varchar(8000))
Returns varchar(8000)
As
Begin
Declare @Start int,
@End int,
@Length int
While CharIndex('<', @Dirty) > 0 And CharIndex('>', @Dirty, CharIndex('<', @Dirty)) > 0
Begin
Select @Start = CharIndex('<', @Dirty),
@End = CharIndex('>', @Dirty, CharIndex('<', @Dirty))
Select @Length = (@End - @Start) + 1
If @Length > 0
Begin
Select @Dirty = Stuff(@Dirty, @Start, @Length, '')
End
End
return @Dirty
End
GO
[/font]
Here's my function (made in the U.S.A.)...
[font="Courier New"]--===== Create the "strip tags" function using a "psuedo-cursor" on a Tally table
-- (by Jeff Moden, USA)
CREATE FUNCTION dbo.jbmStripTags (@Dirty VARCHAR(8000))
RETURNS VARCHAR(8000) AS
BEGIN
SELECT @Dirty = STUFF(@Dirty,CHARINDEX('<',@Dirty),CHARINDEX('>',@Dirty)-CHARINDEX('<',@Dirty)+1,'')
FROM dbo.Tally t
WHERE t.N <= LEN(@Dirty)
AND SUBSTRING(@Dirty,t.N,1) = '<'
RETURN @Dirty
END
GO[/font]
Here's the test code...
[font="Courier New"]--===== Supress the auto-display of roucounts for appearance
SET NOCOUNT ON
--===== Create a 7,830 charater "tagged" string
DECLARE @MyText VARCHAR(8000)
SELECT @MyText = REPLICATE('<b>My <i>sample</i> Text</b> ',270)
--===== Test Robert's While Loop function
PRINT '========== While Loop Function =========='
SET STATISTICS TIME ON
SELECT dbo.fnStripTags(@MyText)
SET STATISTICS TIME OFF
PRINT REPLICATE('=',100)
--===== Test my pseudo cursor/Tally table function
PRINT '========== Pseudo-Cursor Function =========='
SET STATISTICS TIME ON
SELECT dbo.jbmStripTags(@MyText)
SET STATISTICS TIME OFF
PRINT REPLICATE('=',100)[/font]
... and, here's the results of that test...
[font="Courier New"]========== While Loop Function ==========
SQL Server Execution Times:
CPU time = 453 ms, elapsed time = 714 ms.
====================================================================================================
========== Pseudo-Cursor Function ==========
SQL Server Execution Times:
CPU time = 281 ms, elapsed time = 320 ms.
====================================================================================================[/font]
If you don't already have a Tally table or maybe don't know how it works to replace loops, now's the time to find out. Please take a look at the following article (also written in the U.S.A.) 😉
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/TSQL/62867/
=======================================================================================================================================
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 23, 2009 at 1:07 am
O.k Jeff you are specialize in efficient stored procedure designing. We will chosen you to design good stored Procedures. But we won't give you complete project. Because Jack of All Trades Master of None 😉
April 23, 2009 at 2:11 am
Jeff Moden (4/22/2009)
I've been very disappointed with every outsourcing venture we've had, so far. Examples include such things as code that has UDF's that call 4 levels of UDF's and things like spending a million dollars over 3 months on their schedule and getting absolute useless crud that met none of the requirements back. My feeling is that, no matter which country you may be in, if you "outsource", do it with a company within driving distance so you can launch some high velocity pork chops up close and in person. 😛
I dont quite agree. We do a lot of outsourcing work and most of our clients seem to be happy. Yes we have issues with language and not understanding their requirements but we sort it out. We have guys in US who meet the clients and then revert back to us. Its to whom you outsource and what you outsource thats important.
You have compared code written by you and some one else showing that your code is better. But is everyone out there a "Jeff Moden".
Outsourcing actually works both ways where you need to carry forward somebody else's work and i could tell you some stories... One of our clients was a software company who experienced a mass walkout with only the CEO and some "top" guys remaining. we had to develop from where those guys left ofVery funny but for the fact that we had to develop from where those guys left off. Only way we could understand the application was by reading the code and tracing all the db calls and looking into all the db code.:hehe: You have normal issues like requirements suddenly changing, an important demo coming up so bring the deadline forward by so many days, implement a disaster recovery plan for what already is a disaster and .......... Heck once i had to work on a db where column names where [a1] , [a2] and so on. Guess where the db came from ....
To the OP - This is probably not the place to ask this question.
BTW would SSC be such a great place if not for all of us being from diff countries/backgrounds.
My apologies if i have come out strongly on this.
"Keep Trying"
April 23, 2009 at 7:30 am
One of the biggest reason for US economic crisis is outsourcing. contract signed by clinton when he was visiting india alot are now showing results. I would like to see those contracts which clinton signed with INDIA and other countries and transferred all work out. Dont forget that US unemployment rate is jumping every quart. Do you think its because other conutries are getting smart ??? We "US " are the consumers. If we stopped buying i wonder what will happen. oops. No to outsourcing. Why japaneese don't outsource and still doing ok lol
:crazy: :alien:
Umar Iqbal
April 23, 2009 at 7:55 am
Muhammad Kashif Azeem (4/23/2009)
O.k Jeff you are specialize in efficient stored procedure designing. We will chosen you to design good stored Procedures. But we won't give you complete project. Because Jack of All Trades Master of None 😉
What kind of bs is this.
If I wanted people to work on a complete project I will pick a 'Jack of All Trades' before I will look for a 'Master'. People who specialize in one subject in most cases do not see the whole picture and it is hard to get them out of their small box. The wider experience you have, the more likely you can find a proper solution to a problem. When I was interviewing people instead of asking theoretical questions I had them solve puzzles. I want to see how do they can think. So after the 'Jacks' are done architecting the solution I will look for 'Masters' to implement the narrow problems.
At one point I worked on an integration team where the other side had twenty or so 'Masters' and they had hard time communitcation with each other becasue they had no clue what the other was talking about.
---------------------------------------------
[font="Verdana"]Nothing is impossible.
It is just a matter of time and money.[/font]
April 23, 2009 at 8:04 am
Outsouring is good for economy.
It works the same way as all products. I do not know if you noticed but the driving force is buy more, use more, etc. Most of the things we buy now is crap, they brake so you have to buy new ones. nothing is repairable. If a small component brakes - buy a new thing.
The same with outsourcing. You spent time documenting what you need, you outsource, then you fix whatever comes back. More work for everybody. Good for economy.
One of the typical outsourings out there is phone technical support. Did onyone of you ever got real technical support that way?
Outsourcing works for the bean counters - do we really get what was paid for?
---------------------------------------------
[font="Verdana"]Nothing is impossible.
It is just a matter of time and money.[/font]
April 23, 2009 at 8:27 am
Muhammad Kashif Azeem (4/23/2009)
O.k Jeff you are specialize in efficient stored procedure designing. We will chosen you to design good stored Procedures. But we won't give you complete project. Because Jack of All Trades Master of None 😉
You're not qualified to make such a statement because you only know me through this forum. 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 23, 2009 at 8:43 am
JacekO (4/23/2009)
Muhammad Kashif Azeem (4/23/2009)
O.k Jeff you are specialize in efficient stored procedure designing. We will chosen you to design good stored Procedures. But we won't give you complete project. Because Jack of All Trades Master of None 😉What kind of bs is this.
If I wanted people to work on a complete project I will pick a 'Jack of All Trades' before I will look for a 'Master'. People who specialize in one subject in most cases do not see the whole picture and it is hard to get them out of their small box. The wider experience you have, the more likely you can find a proper solution to a problem. When I was interviewing people instead of asking theoretical questions I had them solve puzzles. I want to see how do they can think. So after the 'Jacks' are done architecting the solution I will look for 'Masters' to implement the narrow problems.
At one point I worked on an integration team where the other side had twenty or so 'Masters' and they had hard time communitcation with each other becasue they had no clue what the other was talking about.
The best thing is people who are "Jack's of all trades... and Master of MANY." 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 23, 2009 at 9:14 am
Jeff Moden (4/23/2009)
Muhammad Kashif Azeem (4/23/2009)
O.k Jeff you are specialize in efficient stored procedure designing. We will chosen you to design good stored Procedures. But we won't give you complete project. Because Jack of All Trades Master of None 😉You're not qualified to make such a statement because you only know me through this forum. 😉
My first reaction was exactly the same, but figured out you can fight your fights better (and probably with more civilized language)....
---------------------------------------------
[font="Verdana"]Nothing is impossible.
It is just a matter of time and money.[/font]
April 23, 2009 at 9:22 am
Chirag (4/23/2009)
Jeff Moden (4/22/2009)
I've been very disappointed with every outsourcing venture we've had, so far. Examples include such things as code that has UDF's that call 4 levels of UDF's and things like spending a million dollars over 3 months on their schedule and getting absolute useless crud that met none of the requirements back. My feeling is that, no matter which country you may be in, if you "outsource", do it with a company within driving distance so you can launch some high velocity pork chops up close and in person. 😛I dont quite agree. We do a lot of outsourcing work and most of our clients seem to be happy. Yes we have issues with language and not understanding their requirements but we sort it out. We have guys in US who meet the clients and then revert back to us. Its to whom you outsource and what you outsource thats important.
You have compared code written by you and some one else showing that your code is better. But is everyone out there a "Jeff Moden".
Outsourcing actually works both ways where you need to carry forward somebody else's work and i could tell you some stories... One of our clients was a software company who experienced a mass walkout with only the CEO and some "top" guys remaining. we had to develop from where those guys left ofVery funny but for the fact that we had to develop from where those guys left off. Only way we could understand the application was by reading the code and tracing all the db calls and looking into all the db code.:hehe: You have normal issues like requirements suddenly changing, an important demo coming up so bring the deadline forward by so many days, implement a disaster recovery plan for what already is a disaster and .......... Heck once i had to work on a db where column names where [a1] , [a2] and so on. Guess where the db came from ....
To the OP - This is probably not the place to ask this question.
BTW would SSC be such a great place if not for all of us being from diff countries/backgrounds.
My apologies if i have come out strongly on this.
You raise an interesting point. I never really looked at it that way before.
Most likely, the companies that actually NEED to outsource, are probably the ones that will give you the worst junk to work with. The ones that are outsourcing merely to "save money" are probably the ones that least need it, and will get the least from it.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 23, 2009 at 10:24 am
Jeff Moden (4/23/2009)
Heh... there's some extremely talented folks right here in the U.S.A....
Wow, you took a function I wrote more than 4 years ago and sped it up so that it runs in 1/3 of a second instead of 3/4 of a second. You almost knocked half of a second of it. Well, aren't you just the greatest thing since sliced bread?!?!
And all this was to prove that you can re-write an old function better than another American? Or maybe you're suggesting that I should have outsourced this particular function?
What exactly is your point?
April 23, 2009 at 11:16 am
Robert Davis (4/23/2009)
Jeff Moden (4/23/2009)
Heh... there's some extremely talented folks right here in the U.S.A....Wow, you took a function I wrote more than 4 years ago and sped it up so that it runs in 1/3 of a second instead of 3/4 of a second. You almost knocked half of a second of it. Well, aren't you just the greatest thing since sliced bread?!?!
And all this was to prove that you can re-write an old function better than another American? Or maybe you're suggesting that I should have outsourced this particular function?
What exactly is your point?
Heh... the point is that's a couple of hundred milliseconds... for one row. Create that type of savings per row throughout a large batch process (not just the string cleaning part, but all processes) and instead of it maybe taking 24 hours to run and usually fail, it can run 11 minutes with no failures instead. The real point was that you're supporting outsourcing outside of the U.S.A. and the code you wrote is typical of what we got from outsourcing. The outsourcers and the managers that hired them also took the same basic attitude as you did... what does just a couple of hundred milliseconds mean? It can and has meant horribly slow code... like that 24 hour job I just mentioned.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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