March 24, 2009 at 12:32 pm
umar iqbal (3/24/2009)
Japaneese, Germans, French never outsource . How they surviving?
That's definitely not true! I know a few companies that are at least trying to outsource.
Like I mentioned before, it's not always successful.
The issue why folks like us (one of the above) don't like to oursource that much is simple: language.
When doing outsourcing from the U.S. you're expecting to be faced with English language from the people you are talking to. Since English (at least at the moment) can be considered as THE dominant technical language, it works perfect for people with English as their first language.
It's interesting though that English is not the #1 language of the world in terms of number of people who speaks it either as their first or second language.
The winner is: Mandarin!
Anyway, English is #1 language in technical terms and especially for programming languages. In fact, I've never been faced with a programming language that was other than English based. Off Topic: Does anybody know of any kind? Would be interesting....
So, when we Germans think about outsourcing, we're usually dealing with English as middle language, since none of the project partners normally has it as his/her first language. Being afraid of this additional project risk acts as a lingual barrier. We're not smarter, but more afraid... 🙂
March 24, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I agree. End of the story is no one can stop outsourcing technically speaking. Now if we talk about country then I would say Britian should be best place to outsource. I personally observed that britians are smart in it but expensive. ah haaa.
But if you want cheap solution and don't care about kinda support you will get and want to save money then it would be INDIA the great. oooooo Chances are 90% that companies are outsourcing because we want to enjoy cheap labor not because they want best labor. so My vote is for INDIA the Great.
:crazy: :alien:
Umar Iqbal
March 24, 2009 at 2:03 pm
umar iqbal (3/24/2009)
But if you want cheap solution and ... want to save money then it would be INDIA the great. oooooo
We have a saying over here in Germany (I hope the message comes across even with my bad translation): Buy cheap and you will end up paying twice.
The addtl. money you spend to keep offshore products alive (e.g. rewriting manuals so they can be understood by the end-user, translation and in-depth-explanation of customer requests, maybe even traveling costs for minor add-ons) usually eats up the saving of the original project within a very short period of time.
March 24, 2009 at 2:05 pm
lmu92 (3/24/2009)
umar iqbal (3/24/2009)
But if you want cheap solution and ... want to save money then it would be INDIA the great. ooooooWe have a saying over here in Germany (I hope the message comes across even with my bad translation): Buy cheap and you will end up paying twice.
The addtl. money you spend to keep offshore products alive (e.g. rewriting manuals so they can be understood by the end-user, translation and in-depth-explanation of customer requests, maybe even traveling costs for minor add-ons) usually eats up the saving of the original project within a very short period of time.
In the US, we say, "You get what you pay for".
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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March 24, 2009 at 4:35 pm
karthikeyan (3/24/2009)
lmu92 (3/23/2009)
I'm just wondering:is your question related to the country to outsource from or to outsource to? :hehe:
Aside of that, you're normally not outsorcing to a country but to a company. So, the original question needs to be rephrased.
My question is related to outsource to.
Yes. You are correct! we are outsourcing to a company. But i just wanted to know the overall thought about outsourcing country.
In that case and since you're not in the USA, might I suggest that you outsource to the USA? There's a hell of a lot of talented folks here just chomping at the bit.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 24, 2009 at 4:36 pm
GSquared (3/24/2009)
lmu92 (3/24/2009)
umar iqbal (3/24/2009)
But if you want cheap solution and ... want to save money then it would be INDIA the great. ooooooWe have a saying over here in Germany (I hope the message comes across even with my bad translation): Buy cheap and you will end up paying twice.
The addtl. money you spend to keep offshore products alive (e.g. rewriting manuals so they can be understood by the end-user, translation and in-depth-explanation of customer requests, maybe even traveling costs for minor add-ons) usually eats up the saving of the original project within a very short period of time.
In the US, we say, "You get what you pay for".
Heh... we also say "If you want it real bad, you'll probably get it that way." 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 24, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Hey, you know, I'm just thinking about the following scenario:
If each and every company is outsourcing, then everybody will (still) have enough to do:
Example:
Starting outsourcing from the U.S.
Since you're running quiet a lot of companies, you probably need to outsource to various countries e.g. NewZealand, Australia, SouthAfrika, UK, France, Italy, The Carribean and maybe some minor stuff even to Germany.
By doing so, you'd overflow our local companies with so many work to do that we'd consider outsourcing as well: to the U.S. ! :w00t:
The benefit would be that we all would have the chance to see each other face to face, maybe just at one of the airports around the world, paid by our CFO's who'd still be having parties on how efficient outsourcing is! Sounds like a plan, doesn't it?
Note: I apologize in advance for every country or region I did'nt mention above. The name of the countries were picked by random (more or less 😉 )
PS: I just did a spell check on my text and it offered me the "Ignore"-Button for "CFO"... I hit the button and will do so starting from no on. :hehe:
March 25, 2009 at 4:11 am
lmu92 (3/24/2009)
umar iqbal (3/24/2009)
Japaneese, Germans, French never outsource . How they surviving?That's definitely not true! I know a few companies that are at least trying to outsource.
Like I mentioned before, it's not always successful.
The issue why folks like us (one of the above) don't like to oursource that much is simple: language.
When doing outsourcing from the U.S. you're expecting to be faced with English language from the people you are talking to. Since English (at least at the moment) can be considered as THE dominant technical language, it works perfect for people with English as their first language.
It's interesting though that English is not the #1 language of the world in terms of number of people who speaks it either as their first or second language.
The winner is: Mandarin!
Anyway, English is #1 language in technical terms and especially for programming languages. In fact, I've never been faced with a programming language that was other than English based. Off Topic: Does anybody know of any kind? Would be interesting....
So, when we Germans think about outsourcing, we're usually dealing with English as middle language, since none of the project partners normally has it as his/her first language. Being afraid of this additional project risk acts as a lingual barrier. We're not smarter, but more afraid... 🙂
Good points Lutz, Germany definitely Outsource.
Heh, about language, Germans know English good, but they like when foreigners speak Deutch too.
maybe not afraid but more cautious would be better term.
-------------------------------------------------------------
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March 25, 2009 at 7:10 am
From what I have seen, outsourcing is a complex type of organisation to put in place. There arent places where outsourcing should be done. It all depends on, to me, what your company does, where your markets are. If you are working on computers and what you need is qualified people that can speak english, best thing is going to China. Now if you produce cars and you want to outsource one function, youll have to get a place near your market to import heavy, bulky pieces for your factory. All depends on what you do!
March 25, 2009 at 8:19 am
Jeff Moden,
I 100% agree with you here. Why not outsource to USA. We have plenty of manpower here. And we can get cheap labor also. Let start from KS, OH, MI, PA
:crazy: :alien:
Umar Iqbal
March 25, 2009 at 8:29 am
I have worked with India, Indonesia, US and Korea.
My limited observations (a couple of hundred tasks):
India - we had 5 teams I would send the same task to all 5 and usually none of them would work.
Indonesia - the docs took forever and a task had to be long enough to create the docs but would usually work
US - have to review everything as there is frequently undocumented sections to create future work
Korea - so far the best compromise I have found so far, the only issue we have had is slow to adopt new techniques
March 27, 2009 at 3:44 am
Here is a good question: How do you stop someone to Outsource?
Just read this article on CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/03/26/ibm.outsourcing/index.html
-------------------------------------------------------------
"It takes 15 minutes to learn the game and a lifetime to master"
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality."
March 27, 2009 at 8:38 am
There is some outsourcing in the US to those areas. Microsoft, Google, some other large companies have contracted for services in some rural areas. I'd like to see more.
March 27, 2009 at 8:39 am
Doc (3/27/2009)
Here is a good question: How do you stop someone to Outsource?Just read this article on CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/03/26/ibm.outsourcing/index.html
I think you complain about this. There shouldn't be support for this from the US government. IBM needs to compete in the US if they want US funds. The same thing should happen in other countries. Should India spend money on its companies if they plan on moving jobs to Indonesia?
March 27, 2009 at 8:46 am
Doc,
I need to know this myself how can you stop companies from outsourcing. IBM recently fired 5000 US employees this thursday and hired 5000 in INDIA.
I think if we bring our rate down it will help. But you know what I think its more than pay difference. Being a democratic country US always promote INDIA against China and all this politaical game play important rule there also. To my wonder i have no clue why US will out source IRS work to INDIA.
I was told that work go out then come back but I am not seeing that. it goes out and then it goes out more.
Being a US citizen I hope our government is taking into consideration all aspects before outsourcing. i hope they are working for PPl of america. As you know
Govenment of the People is by the people and for people.
:crazy: :alien:
Umar Iqbal
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