May 11, 2009 at 9:39 pm
peter.lopez (5/11/2009)
Analysis Paralysis. You assume that you have to go through 1000 resume. Statistically you dont, select 100 top ones and another 30 over the next 900 at random. Invariably you will have a reasonable sample set. The issue is not fairness, you set your criteria on how you select. First in first to have a chance. This is life.
With that, you stand a very high chance of NOT finding the one or two people who are actually qualified to do the job.
I very much agree with Terry... "We are losing touch with actual human interaction". Hiring "by the numbers" get you people who can pass a test, not necessarily do the job nor successfully interact with the other humans in the shop.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
May 13, 2009 at 2:09 am
The two jobs I've had in the last fourteen years have both come from the hardcopy ads in Computing. This despite using lots of agencies, computing and computer weekly online searches, jobsite, jobserve, fish4jobs, monster and umpteen more get-u-a-job sites.
Both have been good jobs too, the first only ended by redundancy.
May 13, 2009 at 1:54 pm
I agree with a lot of what's been said in this thread, especially that networking is still the best way to go. I heard about my current position at a local PASS meeting, and learned a former coworker was also a DBA here, who took care of the rest.
I've added two DBAs to the team since then, both through networking, and they've been awesome to have on board.
Problem is, we've basically exhausted our networks. There's not a lot of high-end DBA talent out there, and the smart companies - the kind of places that can attract the really good folks - are taking care of them.
I'm kind of resolved to the fact that I'm going to have to go the Monster/Dice/something route; I've gotten some good advice from someone else who's hired hundreds of tech people. Basically it involves bringing the whole team on board with the first round of getting through the inevitable pile of resumes while still getting every candidate considered. Basically it involves clearly documenting the 'foot-in-the-door' list of requirements to move candidates on to a second round of in-depth resume-reading to build the interview list.
Eddie Wuerch
MCM: SQL
May 13, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Best of luck, Eddie, and I think we'd all be interested to know how this turns out.
May 13, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (5/11/2009)
I think the problem with things like BrainBench is that they allow guesses. No explanation required as a follow up. If everyone treated it seriously as a way to gauge their skills it would work, but too many people want the credit without doing the work and then the system falls down.
I took a Brainbench exam one time, just to see what it was like. Was free. The majority of the questions were about how to use command-line interfaces to SQL Server, and about replication. I am NOT experienced in either of those, but I somehow scored in the top 10%.
It's not just about guessing. There's a whole skillset to multiple-choice tests. I always do very well at them, even on subjects that I barely know, because I know how to game the tests. Not something I set out to learn, just something I worked out from taking WAY too many standardized tests in high school.
I've never seen one yet that had "E. Honestly, I don't know, but I could probably get the correct answer anyway," as an option. If they did, I'd have lower, but more accurate, scores. I guess that should be followed by, "F. No clue, but I could guess and have a 25% chance." 🙂
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
May 13, 2009 at 5:20 pm
The Brainbench comment certainly attracted more attention than I had anticipated. It popped into my head and I thought it might be worth a mention because people have different preferences.
It seems standardized tests aren't popular with this crowd (not a fan myself). So, how do people feel about certification exams then? I think they have some value. However, I'm always suspicious when someone has a long list of certs after their name. It makes me wonder if they are just a master test-taker rather than a master of their trade. Plus the fact that vendors WANT you to pass their tests. It wouldn't help Microsoft's strategy of saturating the market if nobody is skilled enough to use their products. Create a vast supply of qualified professionals to overwhelm your competitors while simultaneously forcing down unit labor costs, thus further lowering total cost-of-ownership.
Too cynical?
James Stover, McDBA
May 13, 2009 at 5:58 pm
It wouldn't help Microsoft's strategy of saturating the market if nobody is skilled enough to use their products. Create a vast supply of qualified professionals to overwhelm your competitors while simultaneously forcing down unit labor costs, thus further lowering total cost-of-ownership.
Yea too cynical because based on the list below Microsoft is not producing enough SQL Server and NET certified because this site membership is more than one million and MSDN is two million.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/certified.mspx
😉
:Whistling:
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
May 14, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I have quit looking by responding to ads on web sites like dice, monster, cybercoder, ... Any recruiter I have ever been involved with was a nightmare... Networking and user groups seem to be the best way.
Your 1000 dice, monster, ... resumes come from the autoresponders (mostly unqualified people from major metro areas). Your recruiters are just putting out ads on dice, monster, ... and plowing through them for you (with not much ability to screen) so they can pay their BMW payments.
It also depends on whether you are trying to find someone that has done everything you may ever want to do at your company, or whether you are willing to commit to an employee and sponsor training.
IMHO, the best way to screen prospects is to
call them
ask problem solving questions
meet them face to face with team members
hire them for a week
if they work out after that, see if they can make a commitment.
most people won't do this. It takes too much effort. But then, you get out what you put in don't you?
However, I have seen some companies do 4 interviews, a drug screen, 2 brainbenches, psych evaluations, credit checks, requests for sample code, drive-bys at your home, and in home interviews. Not sure I would go that far.
About the commitment thing, I see people making commitments, but not companies. Unfortunate that the company is always the chicken, and we have to be the pigs...
May 14, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Usually any "best" candidates will not be in the market looking for a job, or if they are, they will find jobs quickly, i.e. the time-window will be short for an excellent candidate to be hired. With this said, I'd say if you want to find a real good candidate, advertise your company / projects / daily work (by saying why you believe any people work with your company will benefit from the project / daily work) to people who are currently working.
With this said, I think this may be the best time to find qualified DBAs as lots of companies downsized staff these days. Some excellent candidates may not even bother to find a job quickly as they just want to relax for a while (esp. in summer time), so before these people are hired, find out them and hire them asap, at least ask them to visit your company and guarantee them that they can come to work after one or two months. 🙂
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