November 1, 2011 at 7:50 am
GSquared (11/1/2011)
It's just like replacing your company receptionist and salesforce with an auto-attendant. Yes, it can answer the phone, and it's cheaper than a human being. No, that doesn't necessarily make it a good (or bad) decision.
You forget that we now have Siri on our new Apple iPhone 4s.
She will soon replace every assistant.
November 1, 2011 at 8:19 am
I am not arguing against large applications needing good DBA skills. Neither am I arguing against smaller applications could be made better with good DBA skills. What I am saying is there is les need for junior staff and less opportunity for junior staff to get the experience to truely call themselves a Senior DBA.
Even large organisations have a lot of small or medium sized applications (lets say up to 200GB database size), where it is cheaper to throw hardware at the problem than get a human to look at it.
We can get a 8-core blade with 48GB RAM for under GBP £6,000. Once data is in memory, this will happily give snappy performance to a 200GB relational database almost regardless of how it is designed. Looking ahead another year and taking into account widespread adoption of SSD to replace disk, then good design may only become important only above the 500GB level. If you look outside relational at map/reduce type databases, then the skillset needed for these is mainly standard application development, not DBA.
The reason there are fewer good senior DBAs out there is that the supply chain is drying up. This is great news for people already at senior level - less competition for your job and maybe ultimately a pay rise if IT ever responds to market economics for established jobs. But it does mean that people with the skills will have to do increasingly more with fewer staff to support them.
Original author: https://github.com/SQL-FineBuild/Common/wiki/ 1-click install and best practice configuration of SQL Server 2019, 2017 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 R2, 2008 and 2005.
When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor they call me a communist - Archbishop Hélder Câmara
November 1, 2011 at 8:32 am
EdVassie (11/1/2011)
What I am saying is there is les need for junior staff and less opportunity for junior staff to get the experience to truely call themselves a Senior DBA.Even large organisations have a lot of small or medium sized applications (lets say up to 200GB database size), where it is cheaper to throw hardware at the problem than get a human to look at it.
The tools provided by Microsoft and other vendors also allow one DBA to support a much larger environment than we could 5-10 years ago.
Databases per DBA has probably skyrocketed. Users per DBA also.
November 1, 2011 at 8:48 am
As for comparing the cost of hiring a fulltime staff DBA versus the cost of purchasing higher end hardware, the DBA has more value if he/she has expertise in other areas like T-SQL development, BI, or networking. Also having deep industry knowledge and business analysis skills is a game changer. If the DBA can sit down with business, analyze the requirements, and code the SQL, then they're doing 2 or 3 jobs for the price of one. Really what's going on is that expectations for the DBA role in general is changing, and most DBAs will find themsevles doing more of the above going forward.
However, if the DBA is just sitting in a back room, shuffling tapes and waiting for something to break, then one day soon a software tool is going to eat their lunch. You don't want to be that guy.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 1, 2011 at 10:41 am
jasonmorris (10/19/2010)
"Anyone doing a backup/restore with SSMS wizzard will have a (very) bad point (unless he uses it just to generate the script, then he's lazy -> good point)."What is wrong with right clicking and restoring through SSMS? The whole idea of using it to generate a script which is seen as a good point is beyond me i'm afraid.
Why would you need to use a script if you can do it through the provided interface? Obviously there are lots of occasions where you need to use a script but simply restoring a database is certainly not one of them.
Or are people just being elitist?
Totally agree.
Theres a place and a use for everything. You might not use the GUI to backup all db's for an upgrade or migration but do you really think breaking out the USP's/Scripts for an adhoc backup is the way to go?
Adam Zacks-------------------------------------------Be Nice, Or Leave
November 1, 2011 at 11:19 am
You ALL failed. 😉
I have gone back and read this entire thread. At times I fond it to be humerous. Not one has mentioned the templates that are available through the SSMS to do a db restoral. But then, those who actually started the thread a year ago never defined what their idea of a Sr DBA is either.
There were so many threads that I could have cut and pasted to make numerous points, but the one who sumed it up (forgive me, I am horrendous with names) said something to the effect that a Sr DBA knows why something has to be done and essentially how. Personally, I would tell one of my Jr DBA's to go restore a DB or to install SS. But, I may not have him do some complex tuning but to assist in order to further their education/capabilities.
I also see myself in some of this - ie, being better at scripts then GUI but then it took a long time to switch from DOS because Windows wasn't going to last:hehe:
Until I see industry descriptions of each and every job position for a DBA, who are we to criticize? All we can do is identify someone for our immediate needs and slap a label on it as our company sees it.
Steve Jimmo
Sr DBA
“If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
November 1, 2011 at 11:38 am
Why are people complaining about the GUI for SQL Server? At least we have a GUI that actually works.
Oracle DBAs are still complaining (for my entire 11 year career) about their crappy GUI.
November 1, 2011 at 11:45 am
jasonmorris (10/27/2011)
I have a non-senior DBA to do my restores for me 🙂
Cheeky 😉
Adam Zacks-------------------------------------------Be Nice, Or Leave
November 1, 2011 at 11:49 am
Junior vs Senior DBA can clearly be established based on salary. 😀
You are worth whatever your company is willing to pay you.
November 1, 2011 at 11:59 am
Junior vs Senior DBA can clearly be established based on salary.
You are worth whatever your company is willing to pay you
So true.
Steve Jimmo
Sr DBA
“If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
November 1, 2011 at 12:25 pm
JamesMorrison (11/1/2011)
Why are people complaining about the GUI for SQL Server? At least we have a GUI that actually works.Oracle DBAs are still complaining (for my entire 11 year career) about their crappy GUI.
Yes, but Oracle makes up for it by charging an order of magnitude more for their product. 😀
Randy Worrell, IT "Jack of All Trades"
(master of none)
November 1, 2011 at 12:46 pm
randy.worrell (11/1/2011)
JamesMorrison (11/1/2011)
Why are people complaining about the GUI for SQL Server? At least we have a GUI that actually works.Oracle DBAs are still complaining (for my entire 11 year career) about their crappy GUI.
Yes, but Oracle makes up for it by charging an order of magnitude more for their product. 😀
Randy Worrell, IT "Jack of All Trades"
(master of none)
Oracle SQL Developer is comparable to SSMS, and it can even work with SQL Server after installing the Java database provider for mssql. However, it can be a memory hog, and it tends to freeze up remarkably often.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 1, 2011 at 1:32 pm
I think the definition of a 'good' Senior Level DBA needs to be examined.
For instance. I've been a SQL Server DBA now for about 10 years. I don't consider myself senior, as I know that there is just a multitude of things that I still want to learn. I'm no expert by any means.
But, the definition is provided by the employer and their needs.
For instance, I've been on the job at my current employer for a grand total of 3 months, they needed a senior level DBA. Come to find out, they have gone through three senior level DBA's in the last year. But, after looking through the former DBA's notes, I discovered why they have gone through so many.
My particular company needed a Senior Level DBA that is an Administrator (which is what I consider myself). I have looked at a myriad of e-mails from guys in my position formerly and I see stacks of 'opportunities' identified such as 'The following query should be tuned', ' you are missing x indexes' and the ever popular 'There is no primary key on x table', which are all important. However, the bigger picture was that none of these servers had any backups setup properly, developers had access to production systems, memory was configured incorrectly, tempdb on the C: Drive, etc., etc., etc.
I think the question should be 'Where are the good Senior Level DBA's that can do 'x''?
I have been fortunate enough to find my niche is that I'm a good Administrator. I have a solid knowledge of backup strategies, security policies, SANS administration, Server Administration, etc.
So, for the company that I am working for, the previous three were great Senior DBA's as far as Query tuning, database structure tuning, etc., but that's not what the company was looking for. They were specifically looking for a Database Administrator.
I've been on several interviews where the interviewer will ask me to tune query 'x' or check syntax of procedure 'y'. I tell them flat out that I don't know, but then come back over the top on them with 'Where are your tempdb files?" or "Who manages your backup and recovery strategy?"
DBA has become a very wide ranging job title, and I think that's where the problem lies.
November 1, 2011 at 1:53 pm
InDeeDBA (11/1/2011)
DBA has become a very wide ranging job title, and I think that's where the problem lies.
+1 I couldn't agree more. I'm losing the fight to make DBA mean what it says, but I'll be at that war for a while yet.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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November 1, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Yep. We've had plenty of discussion on "how can you define 'Senior DBA' when you can't even define 'DBA'?"
I'm an adequate database administrator. I know not to put tempdb on C:, for example, and how to verify backup and restore strategies. But could I configure a SAN to optimize I/O for an OLTP server? Heck no! I know the RAID levels, but not to the kind of level to administer a SAN. (If I ever need to know, I know how to find out, but that's exactly what I would be doing. Finding out.)
I'm a good database architect. Normalization, performance, flexibility, access control, indexing, partitioning, federation, et al, are all things I can speak to, either really well, or at least better than most, though there are unquestionably those who are better than I at these things.
I'm good at query and structure optimization. I know tricks for making T-SQL and XQuery sing.
I can do okay at SSIS. I can spell SSRS. I've played around with SSAS once or twice, and found that even the shallow end of the pool was pretty darn deep on that one.
So, what's my job title? "Senior DBA", of course. Why? Because "he does that stuff with the databases" is the attitude taken by every employer I've ever had on this line of work. Doesn't really matter what "stuff" encompasses, just that there is "stuff" to be done, and I'm the one expected to do it.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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