September 9, 2008 at 11:33 am
I enjoy working for my current employer, a company of about 30 people.
They can best be described as fair and honest, and in turn expect and believe that we will be fair and honest as well. The owner and the managers he has selected have all come up through the ranks, and understand the need for balance in life. When my coworkers have belly-aching sessions, there is never a mention of not being treated fairly, and all of us regularly work more than 40. Comp time is the companies choice for OT reimbursement, and they do not demand any special accounting of our time in order to get it. I never claim all the comp time that I would be entitled to claim. They have more realistic ways of measuring productivity than the time that we turn in.
This is a huge contrast to employers that I've had in the past. I've had a few where the term slave-driver was not a joke. I've worked union and non-union, and they both have their pluses and minuses.
We have an employee handbook, but it doesn't cover the issues in today's editorial. I would not want to see any of these boundaries written into it for the simple reason that all boundaries cover both sides of the issue, and well, be careful what you ask for. For now, the mutual trust just can't be beat.
This is my feeling based only on the job I have now however. The balance of my prior jobs should have some boundaries created. This is especially true as we watch US fair employment and labor laws continually shredded and rewritten to favor employers.
September 9, 2008 at 12:12 pm
I don't miss 4 A.M. deployments or dinner-time emergencies, but I picked my current job because it doesn't have the potential for them... but when I did have them, I knew what the gig was when I signed up for it, so complaining about my decision-making process to myself wouldn't help. Every once in a while I miss the higher profile assignments or the start-up environment, but then I remember that my kids know who I am now and they're old enough to beat me at Warcraft, so it's worth the trade off.
😛
I was on the clock in high school and college jobs and I've never been happier since I got off the clock. I've always worked way more than 40 hours, but I always choose jobs that I love doing, so it doesn't matter. I negotiate for the $$ that I want, regardless of the hours required. (Truth be told, I've got a job now that I might do for free... but don't tell my boss.)
I do have a Windows Mobile device (which I pay for) that syncs work and personal email during "work hours" and I answer email during lunch or standing in line for a movie, whatever. My personal disorders make it painful to not be thinking about something or doing something, so answering email is a good way to channel it and postpones my need for medication... Every boss I've ever had appreciates the responsiveness, and it's never really cost me anything that I didn't mind giving. I guess that I've blurred the work/personal life boundaries so much that nobody can really tell the difference, including me.
😀
I do always look to see who's calling before I answer the phone, though... and I'm scrupulous about OOF messages for email when I'm really not checking email and IM.
Personally, I don't want to negotiate hours or track them with my boss -- if I do that, I wind up losing freedom the in the long run... and trying to claim comp-time for other work time will result in closer scrutiny of the other time that I'm not specifically work-focused while I'm sitting at the keyboard in my office. Not a good thing, IMO.
Currently, I have goals, commitments and tasks that are part of the year-long plan... with the occasional fire-drill thrown in for entertainment value. But if it only takes me 20 hours to do it in a given week, nobody notices or cares when I wander off on an unrelated project or just go home and play on the Xbox. It's nice to have a trusting boss who values results over face time or squeezing more productivity out of a stone.
:hehe:
September 9, 2008 at 1:09 pm
jim.powers (9/9/2008)
chris.turner (9/9/2008)
If you're away from work and you don't want to be called, switch your phone off. I have two phones, one is the work phone and one is my personal phone. My personal phone is always on in case my wife/family needs to get hold of me. If I get a call on that phone from a number that I don't recognise, or from a work number, then I'll happily let it go to voicemail. If I've left the office and I'm able to do some work, then I don't mind leaving the work phone on, otherwise it gets switched off.It might not work for everyone, but it means that I can seperate work from home life.
This, unfortunately, was not an option for me. There were no employer provided phones, not even for the "higher ups". Further, my boss would not approve out of town travel (even on a holiday) if she could not get in touch with me. She wouldn't even approve a vacation day just to rest at home if she couldn't reach me. This was part of the reason I chose to leave.
I have also worked at places that require a phone number to contact you while you are on vacation. It really sucks, but on rare occasions they have needed to contact me for a really brief answer (such as where did I file a signed contract).
If it required a long answer I responded that I couldn't evaluate what should be done long distance without all my resources at hand. This worked for me, although I can see how it would jeopardize some positions.
Best of all were the vacations where my cell phone was beyond my service area.:P
September 9, 2008 at 1:17 pm
David.Poole (9/9/2008)
... Although I do get paid for this it does mean that my entire family has to go without trips and treats while I am on support....
One point I would like to make is that if companies work their employees into the ground what they gain in extra hours they will lose in sickness and absence.
My experience is that people don't work linearly. I do my best work between 07:00 and 12:00. Hours worked beyond the 8 aren't really that productive. In fact I have found that I most productive when I limit my hours to between 35 and 40 per week.
I totally agree. I can work the occasional 10 hour day, or even do 45+ per week regularly, but when the individual day is longer than 10 hours or the week is greater than 55 hours consistently, the efficiency of my work goes down.
On the on-call issue: I believe UK employees get a lot more vacation time than US employees. Most people here get two or three weeks per year, and a lot of people don't take it all, either rolling it over or taking cash out if that is available. I think UK employees start at four weeks a year, don't they?
September 9, 2008 at 1:23 pm
In my prior job, I was on hourly, and if I had to answer a work-related call or e-mail, it went on the clock. I just had to e-mail HR and they would log the time. I then presented the call log from the cell phone or the relevant e-mail, for documentation, and got paid for that time.
Went onto overtime many weeks because of that.
I'm currently on salary, and my boss and I keep a running tally in our heads of off-hours projects, and I periodically take a 3-day weekend to catch up from it. Nothing formal, but it works well enough. I don't keep track of the 1-minute calls, and he doesn't keep track of my lunch breaks. It's pretty fair and very reasonable. Neither of us abuses it.
One company I worked for had as many people as possible on salary exempt, and demanded that they do a full 40-hour week every week (or docked their pay), but didn't pay overtime or comp time or anything if they went over 40. Unsurprisingly, that company had amazingly low employee loyalty and had real trouble holding on to anyone with any competence at all. They went bankrupt a while back and all their assets were bought out by competitors.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
September 10, 2008 at 2:22 am
The bit that jumped out at me in this article was regarding the policy. I agree wholeheartedly.
If you're employed, your contractual hours are stated, along with expected variations, so employee and company know where they stand. If you get a computer as one of your tools, there should be a policy stating what is deemed reasonable use (Can you do any personal surfing? Can you use the PC to write letters or emails to your bank?), so both employee and company know where they stand. If you get a company car, there should be a policy stating how it can be used, so both employee and company know where they stand.
Why should this not be the case for a company mobile or PIM/RIM? At the point the policy is in place, both parties know the position and can agree to it, reject it or negotiate.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
September 10, 2008 at 2:33 am
Most of the companies I've worked for have been fairly relaxed about timekeeping. As long as I was seen to put in reasonable hours and got the job done, management didn't worry. The surprising thing is that when they did start to comment that it had been noticed (usually by staff/managers in other departments) I'd come in late a few times or taken a couple of long lunch breaks, I have always been able to show that I actually work longer hours than I'm supposed to, e.g. they'd comment that I arrived late Thurday morning and I'd point out that I worked an extra couple of (unpaid) hours on Monday!
Most managers are happy with this, although some still complain that they'd like to know when I'm going to be late - but since it's usually due to trains/traffic/etc, this isn't often possible.
The few places I've worked where they did try to insist on strict timekeeping had much lower morale and high staff turnover (as has been noted elsewhere). Somehow, most managers just don't seem to see the connection!
Derek
September 10, 2008 at 8:21 am
Strict timekeeping doesn't make sense unless you're being paid hourly. People will do the work or they won't, and that's what you track.
I usually let people know in an interview that I'm not great at arriving on time. Just a flaw I have and if you can't deal with it, don't hire me.
September 10, 2008 at 10:54 am
Most UK companies have between 20 and 25 days annual leave plus public holidays.
Most of the ones I have worked for have asked that 3 days of that leave be kept to cover December 27th through to December 31st.
Contracted working hours seems to vary between 35 and 40 although I have seen one where the contracted hours were 45. In each case this was seen as the minimum and that minimum was rarely that.
The worst case I heard was where someone asked a colleague when he grew his beard. His answer was "I wasn't growing one but I haven't had time to shave". He had literally spent 6 weeks working, going home to grab something to eat and sleep for 5 hours before being back in the office.
Apparently staff turnover was astronomic and included suicides and divorces.
I have to ask those of you who have worked mega-hours. Looking back, how much did it benefit your career? When I've worked the silly hours it felt like I was a key employee however I never had anything tangible to suppport the feeling.
September 10, 2008 at 11:10 am
David.Poole (9/10/2008)
I have to ask those of you who have worked mega-hours. Looking back, how much did it benefit your career? When I've worked the silly hours it felt like I was a key employee however I never had anything tangible to suppport the feeling.
I've only done it once where it was not totally an emergency and that was when we re-opened the factory I worked at under new ownership with all new systems. It was necessary to work a couple of 18 hour days then. It certainly didn't change how the bosses thought of IT though.
I always tell employers that I do what' necessary to get the job done. If I promise something by Monday morning I work the hours needed to deliver.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
September 10, 2008 at 11:26 am
David.Poole (9/10/2008)
I have to ask those of you who have worked mega-hours. Looking back, how much did it benefit your career? When I've worked the silly hours it felt like I was a key employee however I never had anything tangible to suppport the feeling.
Good managers take advantage of that unquantifiable feeling. Great manages inspire it...
:w00t:
And geek personalities tend to thrive on it.
I never felt bad about inspiring "silly" hours out of my developers and testers, because I was there with them for every hour of it -- and because we compensated them well for it: buying back missed vacation time, bonuses for delivery and lots of slack time after we delivered. Our salaries went the opposite direction of the dot-bomb curve because we put our backs into the work, figuratively speaking.
Did it help our careers? Absolutely. Not at that start-up company, of course, but everybody who played on that team has taken the skills that we honed there and moved on to much more lucrative, much less stressful career options that they couldn't've gotten without the trials-by-fire.
In the US, my experience is that if you want a better job or a raise, you usually have to change companies (unless the company is large enough to support internal transfers), so you have to make sure that the "silly" time that you invest in a project is something that you can use to improve your resume when it comes time to move on.
September 10, 2008 at 3:42 pm
I'd agree with David that in the short term, on a project or two, the mega hours help you. I've worked overnight on SQL issues at times and I've learned as much from those experiences as months of regular time. Those are invaluable and pack an amazing amount of experience into a short time.
But those work in the short term. Running for a year, or even months like that isn't necessarily good for the health or careers of the people or company. If there's success, then it helps, but if the company fails, invariably there will be plenty of people that feel let down and they will have missed something of life.
It's also a young person's game. Once you have a family, not sure you can make those trade offs and feel good about it.
September 10, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (9/10/2008)
... It's also a young person's game. Once you have a family, not sure you can make those trade offs and feel good about it.
Definitely! I had a stint of unemployment a few years back and my (then) girlfriend was saying that I should enroll in this degree program to get a degree in video game development. Talk about a young man's game, no thank you! I'm 40 (at that time), and have no interest in low-level coding.
I haven't had too many heavy runs of extended hours, and having no more would be fine by me!
-----
[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
September 11, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Interesting calculator of hourly rate: http://www.erlglobal.com/index.php?pageName=rate
I can work 60 hours per week and take 2 weeks of vacation, no sick time (might have to take some after the election, though), which nets 3,040 "billable" hours per year... divide by zero and, voila! Is that really what I work for per hour? For sitting in meetings and reading email? Schweet!
😎
June 24, 2013 at 12:18 am
Well, a lot has changed since 2008. BlackBerry! Who remembers that! Hilarious!
...One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that ones work is terribly important.... Bertrand Russell
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply