April 11, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Hello,
I'm relatively new to SQL server 2005, SSIS, SSAS and SSRS. I'm trying to learn these tools and have looked at Microsoft BOL, free tutorials online, forums, wiley books etc .But i think i have reached a point wherein i would have to invest more to gain much more than what i have.
I have come across sites such as Learnitfirst.com wherein you can download all videos relating to a subject area for around 70$. It seems reasonable.
But would that be better or buying the following books
1]Building a Data Warehouse: With Examples in SQL Server Vincent Rainardi
2] sql server 2005 integration services, kirk haselden
They both seem to be practical hands on books, but the first one gives you a more complete overview of all the BI tools in sQL server.
OR just buy the videos? they dont have any for SSAS yet though?
Anyone use these books or any other good ones?
Thanks for your input
April 11, 2008 at 7:51 pm
I have found the best way to learn is to study and take the Microsoft exams. So far I have the MCSA, MCSE and MCDBA certifications. I will soon have the MCTS for SQL Server 2008 (maybe 2005 before that). You learn step by step how to do almost everything. In addition the SQL Server 2005 Bible is a good source of training.
April 12, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Like practicing the piano, either you invest the time to get really good... or you don't. There are no shortcuts. For example, I recently answered a post where someone had shown a CTE... the person who was asking the question had never seen anything like...
:WITH somealias AS (SELECT yada-yada)...
The guy said he'd been working with Oracle for 12 years... 12 YEARS! ... and he'd never seen such a thing! Oracle has had CTE's (called "Sub-Query Refactoring" in Oracle help) for many years.
Wanna be just like him? Take shortcuts... wanna be smart in SQL? Practice.... answer questions on forums and try different peoples methods.
While I agree that studying for the MS exams will give you reason to practice, as a person who interviews DBA's for jobs, the certs mean nothing to me during the interview... if you don't know your stuff, and I'm not talking about the canned stuff you find in study guides, I'm not going to hire you. And, because I've worked with 2 Microsoft Certified DBA's that couldn't hit the floor with their hat, I've gotta tell you that, to me, certs on your resume don't help... I want to see a list of accomplishments. I want to see what you're going to bring to the company other than a dusty ol' certificate that might mean nothing so far as your skill goes.
Computers are an imagination limited tool and a limited imagination makes them limited tools. Expand your imagination... spend the time. Practice... alot! There are no shortcuts.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 12, 2008 at 2:19 pm
There are Webcasts series that you can find on the Microsoft web site. This was the best way to learn for me.
http://www.microsoft.com/events/series/sqlserverbi.aspx?tab=webcasts
April 12, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Thanks for your feedback everyone..yes i definetly do not want to take shortcuts, but im sure you would all agree that the subject domain i am referring to is vast...
I am using SQL server to build a data warehouse, i would focus where i wanto build my knowledge base within this scope.
I know it could take time, years and practice to become very good in an area. One way would be to try and find solutions to problems that i face in innovative ways. However, i also find that as i progress i face different issues. For example When i first began, i did not may much attention to query performance and optimization, which i do now with great improvement in my work. I am thus able to focus on other issues.
But i would only be able to go so much without some sort of formalized guidelines and approach, there is a lot to learn in each subject so that is the primary reason i had asked, so i can get feedback from others more experienced than me.
I taken a lot of inefficient approaches in design and implementation , which may or may not have been avoided. There is room for all that but i also feel i need to accelerate my learning and have benchmarks along the way.
Do you read or reference one or two tech books evry other month?, do online training? answer posts online? etc etc..its those kinda questions i ask...to get direction...i definetly wanto be thorough in this area....!!
April 12, 2008 at 9:27 pm
JD (4/12/2008)
Do you read or reference one or two tech books evry other month?, do online training? answer posts online? etc etc..its those kinda questions i ask...to get direction...i definetly wanto be thorough in this area....!!
Sounds like you're on the right track, overall. Answering posts and seeing how others answer posts has sure helped me... real handy to see how some folks do things in the real world and good examples are some of the best teachers of a method. Doing searches on what are "common problems" and some not so common problems help round things out. I've bought a handful of books on SQL Server over time... but a lot of that information is online.
Going to a seminar or user group meeting here and there helps introduce new things like SSIS and Reporting Services... makes a good introductory foundation for what to look for and how to get started quickly.
Getting a copy of SQL Server Developer's Edition and the Books Online that comes with it is also a great move... you can practice from the comfort of your own home.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 15, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Thanks, it does look like most of the people here have learnt things themselves, i was trying to decide as to whether i should buy some more books for SSAS or probably just go for training or buy training videos...
April 16, 2008 at 3:22 am
Do you have experience in DW/BI on other platforms and want to learn SQL server tools?
or are you new to DW/BI all-together?
there are a lot of books out there on the subject depending on your experience it is probably better to get an understanding of DW fundamentals and design before getting into the technical details of the SQL tools.
April 16, 2008 at 11:15 am
I am pretty new in the sense that this is my first DW/BI project altogether.
I am using this methodology that i found during my initial reserach in this project.
1.Determine the reports that DW is supposed to support.
2.Identify data sources.
3.Extract data from their transactional sources.
4.Populate the staging area with the data extracted from transactional sources.
5.Build and populate a dimensional database.
6.Build Extraction Transformation and Loading (ETL) routines to populate the dimensional database regularly.
7.Build and populate Analysis Services cubes(SSAS).
8.Build reports and analytical views by:
oUsing SSRS
The first stage (ETL) i managed using t-sql procedures (and using SSIS to a limited extent).
Although i was relatively new to SQL as well, i learnt it, since i have a background in programming.
But using SSAS and SSRS and building cubes would get more complicated, since i am new i was looking at how i should learn it...do training( if so where?) , buy training videos online? or just read books(which would be slow)...
April 17, 2008 at 2:21 am
Any budding DW designer/builder should get a copy of
'The Data Warehouse Lifecycle Toolkit' by Ralph Kimball
this will give you a really good understanding of techniques and theories behined DW. I am currently reading the second edition after reading the first one many years ago.
As far as learning SQL sepecifics i found the Wrox Professional Series on SSIS, SSAS, and SSRS very useful. Having a background in programming will mean that you should come up to speed quickly with these. I learnt the Sql spefics from these books after coming from an Informatica/SQL/Oracle/Business Objects DW background
April 17, 2008 at 8:48 am
I've tried the book method to get up to speed, and the problem I usually hit is that I don't have a common frame of reference with the authors. They've been using the product since beta, maybe earlier, and by the time they are writing the books, they've forgotten all the gotchas for those of us using the newer technology. Books are great once you have that common language and concept.
I usually start out with the books, then finally get work to send me to an updater class or a specialized class at Learning Tree. Because of the prep work, I've got my own list of questions that I'm going to have answers to before the class is ended. The instructors expect people to tell them what they are looking for, and they make sure you get it. And, as they've had the previous technology and ask you what your background is, they can help you build that framework and reference point so you can use the books for the heavier stuff after the class is done.
Bring along a laptop with a copy of your environment, dummy data of course - Linus and Lucy are my personal favorite employees, and Snoopy makes a great manager... Then, when you're in the hotel room at night, work on what you've learned on this copy. I haven't had an instructor yet who wasn't willing to sit down when they had some spare time and help me find problems. Key here is asking for help, but not expecting them to do your job for you. If you show you are serious about learning, and value their time, most people will help as long as they don't feel you're trying to take advantage.
I can say that every sql server class I've taken in person has paid for itself within the first day, regardless of vendor, as I get the answers I need and, I get the necessary framework to continue with other sources from there.
Brenda
April 17, 2008 at 9:07 am
Well i guess it does come down to individual preference and whether you have the time and budget to attend courses.
Though it is worth noting that nothing beats being mentored by a senior developer in the field you are learning, this is easily the best method but really depends on the size of organization you work in. That is where sites like this can come in as a bit of a substitute with the amount of expert advice available from very experienced professionals.
April 17, 2008 at 9:23 am
Steve,
you've got it - everyone learns differently. If I don't have that reference point to work with, I do better with a "show me" environment. Going to a class works for me, as I'm not getting continuously interrupted and can stay on topic. I agree that working with someone who's willing to mentor is the best way to go, and I've done that when possible. When you are the senior person, though, and you've got to get up to speed quickly so you can drag everyone else along, doing something like the updater classes is really the way to go.
People also have to understand that there's no such thing as an expert - you may think you're an expert on something, but there's always someone that knows more about it than you do, and you want to find those people to help you keep learning. Forums like this are a great way to share your knowledge and maybe prevent someone else from going thru the same thing.
It's a never ending process - you're always picking up books to read, etc., or you're in the wrong career field. I personally want people on my team who think of it as a career, not just a job. If they don't want to keep learning, I don't want them around. I want them to be interested enough that they learn more than I know and can be a resource for me as well as me being a resource for them.
Brenda
April 21, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Thanks brenda and steve, that was a lot of great career advice as well!!
I'm usually a "go at it alone" sorta person, but i have come to realize the importance of opening up my code, thoughts and ideas, so that i can just do things better. And as you've pointed out "there will always be someone better than where i am currently" not necessarily with the tool set, but basically in problem solving.
My company has people with SQL knowledge, but nothing much in building Data warehouses, so i will have to come up with solutions and improvise only thru "outside" help.
For now i am -
1] Reading up (hopefully on a more consistent basis) about SSAS, SSRS etc
2] Classes/Consultants/Mentors who would have the time within the next month or two to answer some questions i have. Looks like i would have to wait for a couple of months for that as nothing seems available rite now.
3] Enjoy life 😛
Thankfully so far there has not been much pressure with deadlines, but i would like to avoid that.
Thanks again..
December 4, 2009 at 8:34 am
If you need to build more complex MDX queries, I'd recommend MDX Solutions by George Spofford et. al. (second edition). It has very good discussions of calculation context, methods, functions, query optimization at various levels, and a complete description of function syntax in an appendix.
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