July 22, 2012 at 11:18 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item What to look for in an employer
Best wishes,
Phil Factor
July 22, 2012 at 11:23 am
"There are, of course, the classic general danger signs such as a fish-tank in the foyer, and a flagpole outside."
Flag poles are quite common in our area of the country (South) - so I don't know what the basis for something like this might be. [and it is rare to see the confederate flag outside of rural areas, we just fly 'old glory' and our state flag]. Most of the rest of your points I would agree with - but not this one.
July 22, 2012 at 2:10 pm
I don't know the origin of this saying, but it comes from accountants. The third bad sign, according to the legend, is a car-park full of expensive lease cars. Why flagpoles are bad I don't know, but the last time I visited a company with both the fish-tank and the flagpole, it was out of business within six months. Maybe it is different in the Southern States
Best wishes,
Phil Factor
July 22, 2012 at 3:35 pm
I always scope out the parking lot as well. Hard to tell whether a vehicle is leased or not but if there's clearly a large number of older vehicles, especially inexpensive models I judge it to mean that there is a disconnect between how management is valued and the rank and file is valued. One place I worked also had a separate lot for management. The lot for the rest was five minutes away, unpaved and filled with cheap cars. Bad sign.
Trying to determine the ratio of women to men in the office is a pretty good indicator too. An office with an even balance (especially in each work group) I believe will work better than groups that are overwhelmingly male or female. I think that just having members of the opposite sex nearby keeps people on their best behaviour. I have seen it work and the lack of it fail to work.
I'm curious about the fish tank though. Never heard that one so I'll keep an eye out.
July 22, 2012 at 10:17 pm
Hey guys, I have some noob questions.
What is "fish-tank" and "flagpole" term means?
July 23, 2012 at 1:18 am
"There are, of course, the classic general danger signs such as a fish-tank in the foyer, and a flagpole outside."
:laugh:
When you work for the government the danger sign is the absence of the flagpole!
July 23, 2012 at 1:55 am
My local Cafe where I get my real coffee in the morning just put in a fish tank under their counter. I hope they don't go out of business!
I think one sign of a bad place to work is one that's rife with nepotism. If the Boss's son or daughter is also of senior rank and in line for the "throne" then run a mile.
July 23, 2012 at 2:05 am
What I look for is a challenge. My last employer, though the people were warm and friendly and the environment was OK, was in the managed services business - providing outsourced IT support to multiple customers. Consequently I was encouraged (as the DBA) to be reactive to issues, rather than proactive. Any attempt at proactive measures (implementing source control, standards, even performance alerting) was robustly denied on commercial grounds. 'Is the customer paying for this? No? Then it's a no. Cheers anyway.' After 8 months I had had enough and moved onto a more challenging role.
I think things like the flagpole / fishtank (not sure of the significance of this?), decent coffee, good environment etc. are important but nowhere near as important as the core of the work. I've worked on trains and buses, in a crowded study, on hotdesks, in cafes and pubs (bars for you merkins) and I find I can normally be productive anywhere. When I worked for one large company (rearrange the letters BMI) I didn't even have a permanent office - I was free to roam the country, working where I wanted to (home, office, cafe) providing I turned in the work.
Now I work for a small dev shop. It's an OK environment - good coffee, open-plan, small staff turnover - but it's the opportunities I have to develop and implement best practices and develop my skills in areas in which I'm weak that mean I'll stay here for as long as they want me.
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July 23, 2012 at 6:01 am
Perhaps it's minor, but for me a big one would have to be if they were using dual (at least) displays or not. After a decade of having two monitors at two different companies I refuse to go back, so if they didn't already have them that would definitely be something I'd be asking about.
July 23, 2012 at 6:37 am
One of the best interviews I had included talking with the various users I would be working with on a regular basis. This helped me understand how much the company cared about delivering the right product to our users. The job was for a Reporting/Database Analyst and I loved working for that company and I would have retired there; but I moved to another state.
One of the worst interview I had included a question on the phone that went like this "Are you a hard worker?" Ummm no, I'm lazy but please give me the job! I have had onsite interviews where I took certification exams, other types of test, etc. It's not the greatest assessment tool, but it's alright. I prefer when the company has their own testing environment as opposed to using a Certification Exam (since I don't work with XML all those questions were annoying!).
I've also had interviews were the person on the phone asks a ridiculous question for which one would have had to memorize the text book and then tells me I'm wrong and tells me the right answer afterwards. Needless to say, I rejected going for the onsite interview. One humiliation is enough right?
Another thing to look for is to see if you keep getting repeated questions from different interviewers. This tells me that there is some communication breakup somewhere in the chain. When I run interviews, I make sure that the entire team has the set of technical questions we will review and then we tell each other which questions were asked. That way when we want to ask a similar question we ask for more depth.
It is also a good sign when the interviewers are relaxed and may ask some informal questions or have a sense of humor. You never want to work in a place that is run like a concentration camp where the death penalty is issued for smiling!
My two cents!
July 23, 2012 at 7:16 am
The main thing I look for is the same thing I do when I'm either side of a job interview. I do what's called a "two-minute psychometry". It simply consists of communicating with the person while taking on various personality traits. When you get strong, fast agreement, that's the person's base-personality. Run like heck from the destructive ones, pick the positive ones. Hasn't failed me yet.
Takes a few hours to learn properly, and some practice to get good at, but it's easy, it's accurate enough, and it works.
Even a "failing" company, with the right leadership, can pull out of disasters. Can be worth the chance to join a company that very well might showing signs of stress, if the leadership has the traits that can deal well with that kind of thing. Even a prosperous company that's currently doing well can be killed horribly by leadership with the wrong traits. So I pay more attention to who I'm dealing with than any other single factor.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 23, 2012 at 7:27 am
I too would like to know the significance of the flagpole and the fish tank. "There are, of course, the classic general danger signs such as a fish-tank in the foyer, and a flagpole outside. Either, evidently, is a classic sign of a company in its terminal stages." Evident to whom? Are you being serious or facetious?
My guesses: If a company has a flagpole, then I would check the flag. In good condition: good sign. In bad condition: probably a bad sign. Bare pole during working hours (especially if it has a light aimed at the top): probably a bad sign. A fish tank without fish in plain sight is probably a bad sign unless someone is cleaning it. An active fish tank contributes to the ambiance, so I would wonder what purpose it serves. And at any rate, a live fish tank means that company resources are being used on things that are not absolutely essential to the business.
Jay Bienvenu | http://bienv.com | http://twitter.com/jbnv
July 23, 2012 at 7:37 am
I look for a place with a nine or above on the Joel Test. I will even ask the manager for their Joel test score or ask if I can help them get it there.
Definitely two monitors or more per developer. Great windows and ventilation. Fish tanks in foyers are generally good for Feng Shui (Chinese art of design). The catch is they must be clean and colorful so that they can bring good energy to a place which will help the people feel good and the business will generally benefit.
July 23, 2012 at 8:08 am
I know it sounds minor, but good cycling facilities is a big one for me nowadays. It's become my main form of exercise and I wouldn't want to give it up for a job just because there were no showers and no where to leave my bike.
Don't get the issue with the flagpoles and fishtanks. Don't see much in the way of Flagpoles in the UK, but I've worked places with Fishtanks before and they've not gone out of business.
July 23, 2012 at 8:23 am
Freddie-304292 (7/23/2012)
I know it sounds minor, but good cycling facilities is a big one for me nowadays. It's become my main form of exercise and I wouldn't want to give it up for a job just because there were no showers and no where to leave my bike.Don't get the issue with the flagpoles and fishtanks. Don't see much in the way of Flagpoles in the UK, but I've worked places with Fishtanks before and they've not gone out of business.
I totally understand the need to exercise, but please remember, you are not being paid to ride a bike at work. That should be at most a secondary consideration. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
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