What SQL Server Sites do you use?
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I don’t think rating systems can be fair because only the MSDN forums with paid mostly Chinese moderators gives points based on technical validity based on their skill level. And Microsoft did not hire these people to create equity it just happened because that department decided to cleanup their forums. The reason similar group is in the Asp.net forums but most none US users whites included have left that place in frustration with how the points are awarded even when the OP posts you gave the correct answer the ring knockers gives them selves the points. And the ring knockers forces users to one or two forums and make sure points are not given when the user answers questions outside those forums.
The MSDN forums are almost overloaded because users don’t want to use the Asp.net forums. These rating systems are creating technically suspect Plutocracy that maybe questioned one day.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie -
RBarryYoung (6/13/2009)
Hmm, before I jump into this any deeper let me ask: what would we be trying to accomplish by this? What shortcoming of SSC would we be fixing? Or what new desirable feature would we be adding?Actually, nothing. The subject came up a couple of times in previous months. Some folks seemed interested but I agree with Gail... it could be a source of hard feelings and I agree with you... nothing's broke here that I can tell.
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
Jeff Moden (6/13/2009)
... nothing's broke here that I can tell.... heh... not counting the search functionality and the code windows, that is. 😛
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
Jeff Moden (6/13/2009)
Jeff Moden (6/13/2009)
... nothing's broke here that I can tell.... heh... not counting the search functionality and the code windows, that is. 😛
And the quote button from time to time.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
In addition to SQL Server Central, I use Tek-Tips (www.tek-tips.com). It's an excellent (in my opinion) all around site for IT Professionals.
-SQLBill
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GilaMonster (6/13/2009)
And the quote button from time to time.Interesting you say that cause I have seen it a couple of times now. I think I have it figured out.
If the thread was updated sometime after you selected it (open in new tab?) - when you go to reply it refreshes the thread, but does not let you reply. You have to hit reply again. However, if you hit quote instead - it allows you to quote, but selects the 'current' post instead of the post you have quoted.
At least, that is what I have observed so far. 🙂
Jeffrey Williams
“We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.”― Charles R. Swindoll
How to post questions to get better answers faster
Managing Transaction Logs -
I think Jeffrey has it right on the Quote button. Some faulty logic for calculating which item to quote if you're at the end. I've notified InstantASP, but they haven't really responded. I'm trying to argue to rewrite this as a simpler system, not like StackOverflow, since I think they don't encourage discussions, but with some simpler elements.
The code windows and search are a constant battle. After a few other items that I've sorely needed, I will be banging on someone for search.
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Jeffrey Williams (6/16/2009)
GilaMonster (6/13/2009)
And the quote button from time to time.Interesting you say that cause I have seen it a couple of times now. I think I have it figured out.
If the thread was updated sometime after you selected it (open in new tab?) - when you go to reply it refreshes the thread, but does not let you reply. You have to hit reply again. However, if you hit quote instead - it allows you to quote, but selects the 'current' post instead of the post you have quoted.
Yeah, I figured it out a while back. I still consider it broken.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
I hang around here at SSC. I tried MSDN. But i did not feel comfortable like here. The main thing is that there is no discussion. If you try to question one of the Main posters answer (Or give a better solution) you will be totally ignored.
-Roy
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GilaMonster (6/17/2009)
Yeah, I figured it out a while back. I still consider it broken.Of course 😀
Jeffrey Williams
“We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.”― Charles R. Swindoll
How to post questions to get better answers faster
Managing Transaction Logs -
In fairness, I should also mention what features of StackOverflow and msdn did seem to work for me.
1) Named Badges(SO): I thought that the named badges feature of SO worked extremely well and managed to add a new dimension of participation recognition. Other sites would do well to note this and think on what kind of action & achievement recognition system might enhance thier own forums.
2) Sub-rankings by Forum & Forum Group (msdn): I nice idea at MDSN, when you are in a forum or forum group, one of the sidebar sindows has a "current" window that rotates several lists, including a current points ranking for just that forum or group. Some of the other lists ("forum Top in last 30 days" and "currently active") are worht it as well.
3) A Code Button: For some reason, none of the other sites that I visit have a problem that plagues us at SSC: posters who include code, but do not format it. The only difference that I can figure is that all of them have an explicit "Include Code" button on the toolbar.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font] -
Another one:
4) "Worked For Me" and "Helpful" voting buttons: NOT an "answer" button or "accepted", etc. Keeping track of these is useful, but they should not be presented as anything other than comment tracking. Maybe add checkboxes to a reply everytime someone different clicks the "Worked" button and thumps-up icons everytime someone else clicks the "Helpful" button.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font] -
As long as I'm making lists, What, IMHO, did/does Not work:
A) "Accepted" or "Answer" flags: It seems like such a good and obvious thing: flag which one is the right answer. The problem is, the OP's aren't qualified to decide this. Actually, niether are the top point-getters at many site. What's even more suprising, is that I've seen many MVP's and Moderators at msdn (who are also mostly MVPs) flag the wrong answer. I have even seen Microsoft employees at msdn flag an incorrect reply as the "Answer". It turns out that NO ONE person is actually qualified to make this call, only time and robust discussions can do that.
B) Searching for Unasnwered questions: This was one of the big suprises that I didn't mention before. The biggest problem with flagging replies as answered, isn't that they may be incorrect (though that is big), it's that this inevitably leads to "Search For Unanswered Threads". And that is what really kills discussions, any kind of peer-review, and any chance that some other high-poster will notice and call out an incorrect answer.
C) The Big Points Bonus: Sites that flag "The Answer" also invariably offer a "Big Point" bonus or award for it. This has the effect of devaluing participation and cooperation in favor of competiton and one-upping and one-plussing each other. If there was any kind of community before, this will inevitably destroy it. It also has the effect of taking everything that is already wrong with flagging "The answer" and magnifying it 5 or 10 fold. As far as I am concerned, the only big points should be for participation. If there are points awarded for anything else, they should be for less, not more.
D) Closing or Deleting Questions: This should never be a social (community) function at a professional site. It should only ever be handled by the site's professional staff and maybe a small number of trusted members, selected only by the professional staff. That way, it's never personal, it's not about being unpopular or getting black-balled. It is always only about the site's administrative policy.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font] -
4) "Worked For Me" and "Helpful" voting buttons: NOT an "answer" button or "accepted", etc. Keeping track of these is useful, but they should not be presented as anything other than comment tracking. Maybe add checkboxes to a reply everytime someone different clicks the "Worked" button and thumps-up icons everytime someone else clicks the "Helpful" button.
On MSDN forums only the plutocrats helpful points get counted and added to their other points. All other decorations.
A) "Accepted" or "Answer" flags: It seems like such a good and obvious thing: flag which one is the right answer. The problem is, the OP's aren't qualified to decide this. Actually, niether are the top point-getters at many site. What's even more suprising, is that I've seen many MVP's and Moderators at msdn (who are also mostly MVPs) flag the wrong answer. I have even seen Microsoft employees at msdn flag an incorrect reply as the "Answer". It turns out that NO ONE person is actually qualified to make this call, only time and robust discussions can do that.
I think answered is used internally to cost each forum because the forums are internal product groups work forums, it just made its way to external use. Microsoft may stop using Answered if the top users in each category will let them spend product support money but the top users rightfully will not agree because in the development forums SQL Server included most questions are new development and sharing of ideas which is not related to product support. And MVPs are not necessarily moderators again forum owners knows those who are not qualified, they remain MVP and later become moderators because they are sycophants and answers most questions telling users to post useless bugs.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie -
I usually go to SQL Server Central but I'm also active on Experts Exchange.
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