November 26, 2007 at 7:55 am
In my opinion the difference between a programmer and a 'good programmer is the same as the difference between a DBA and a 'good' DBA. It boils down to the answer of a question that the programmer (or DBA does not know).
Programmer (DBA) response: We'll work it out (or something to that effect without acknowledging "they do not know everything")
'good' Programmer (DBA) response: I do not know right now, but I will find out and bring you some options.
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
November 26, 2007 at 8:50 am
I'd add my 2 cents
Programmer - Someone hired to write code
Good Programmer - Someone that gets the code written I need written and it works.
Great Programmer - Works faster and on more problem sets than good programmer
And thanks for the complements :blush:
November 26, 2007 at 9:16 am
...but it could also result in code that nobody else knows how to maintain.
Heh... you should NEVER have that problem... "good" programmers also document their code especially when it comes to "tricky or difficult" code. Further, on "good" teams, Developers/Programmers are given the opportunity to share ideas.
The ability to experiment certainly does not define a good programmer.
Heh... you are correct... it defines a "run of the mill" programmer who not only won't think outside the box, but can't.
When I look for "good" Developers, I want someone who cannot only follow design specs, but someone who will provide the necessary feedback to say "Hey! I think the design spec is wrong... what do you think about this?" Operative word is "THINK". I don't want some SQL drone that can't or won't think... I want a valuable member of the team and those people are typically the ones who do experiments on the side.
One of the questions I ask on interviews is "Do you ever just play with or do experiments with SQL just to see what you can do?"
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 26, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Jeff Moden (11/26/2007)
One of the questions I ask on interviews is "Do you ever just play with or do experiments with SQL just to see what you can do?"
...to which the right answer should NEVER start with...
"Yeah - I was playing with this new cool TRUNCATE feature in production, right before the end of my last job...."
:w00t:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
November 26, 2007 at 12:53 pm
karthikeyan (11/22/2007)
Andrew, I dont think so. Because i am not asking what is mean by programming ? i am asking the difference between programmer and good programmer.I know the basic difference between programmer and good programmer;).But some experts definitely should have different thought about my question.Thats why i posted this question.
Because i have read an article 'who can program' written by Steve Jones - Editor of this site. Really i have learnt so many things from the article. Like that if any experts share their idea then it would be very useful for me.
You need to ask your question in a version of english that can be understood. I wouldnt go to a website that is in the Gujarati dialect and tell them that they are reading my post incorrectly.
November 26, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Matt Miller (11/26/2007)
...to which the right answer should NEVER start with..."Yeah - I was playing with this new cool TRUNCATE feature in production, right before the end of my last job...."
:w00t:
Heh... you KNOW that guy? I think he's the same one that found the silent version of DELTREE via xp_CmdShell 😛
Just in case someone thinks I've lost my mind... I never let Developers have write rights in the production environment... we go through code reviews, QA testing, Configuration Management, Change Controls, etc, etc. Most folks don't have that luxury... but they should consider adopted similar principles. Develope/Test on the Dev box... promote the code to production when testing is complete. Developers don't need write access to the production box...
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 26, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Developer access in production ...
NOT.
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
November 26, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Great programmers never think they are great, they keep improving themselves, ask questions and help other programmers. They are the humble group.
Programmers just write program, complain about the deadline and workload.
'BAD' programmers think they know everything, talk about what they had done before, never ask question, never accept suggestions, and tell people what to do. If they do something wrong, they blame the system - the server, the database, the network....never themselves.
November 27, 2007 at 2:14 am
Andrew Stanton (11/26/2007)
karthikeyan (11/22/2007)
Andrew, I dont think so. Because i am not asking what is mean by programming ? i am asking the difference between programmer and good programmer.I know the basic difference between programmer and good programmer;).But some experts definitely should have different thought about my question.Thats why i posted this question.
Because i have read an article 'who can program' written by Steve Jones - Editor of this site. Really i have learnt so many things from the article. Like that if any experts share their idea then it would be very useful for me.
You need to ask your question in a version of english that can be understood. I wouldnt go to a website that is in the Gujarati dialect and tell them that they are reading my post incorrectly.
I agreed,English is not my first language.But till now i have posted around 150 posts in this site also i got dame good answers from dame good experts,Understood.
I dont think my version of english doesn't in non understandable format. Because so far lot of people answered for the above question.Jeff Moden,Steve-Editor,Loner,Matt,rudy and stockham answered for this question.You know they are very good knowledge in both Sqlserver and English. They didn't complained about my english language. Also mentioned peoples answered for all my post.
Moreover SSC site is not teaching english.for example 'Howto Improve your communication skill' like that. It's basic theme is to create community between users who is using sqlserver,Understood.
I know english is very important for IT peoples.I agreed,I don't have good english skill comparing to peoples who is having english as a first language.But i am trying to improve my written skill.So dont put negative words. If possible try to motivate me, or leave it.
Because your words are hurting me.It degrades my confidential level.I though i am better now than past,but.....your words decreasing my energy level.
Also i never say 'I know it when I see it';).As Jeff said,i am a kid, i am a school boy,As i have 1.8 years experience i agreed his words. But as Brian Said i have the curiosity.So i have the confident i never fail in my life.Thats why i was posting questions to get valuable suggestions and explanations from dame good experts.This is an example for my curiosity,Actually i dont want to prove my curiosity,because people who have gathered good experience in IT field like Brian would know whether i have the curiosity or not.But for some reason i am in the position to prove my curiosity.
As Loner said, If i made any mistake i never blame sytem or blame. I blame myself and i would say i agreed my mistake and it will not happen in future.
Well,:) Thanks for all experts who participate in this forum and for their valuabe suggestion and explanation.
We will meet in another interesting title.
🙂
karthik
November 27, 2007 at 5:01 am
A good programmer can easily and correctly convert written instruction into code.
Thanks :smooooth:
Warm Regards,
Shakti Singh Dulawat
Before printing, think about the environment
Do the impossible, and go home early.
November 27, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Jeff Moden (11/26/2007)
Matt Miller (11/26/2007)
...to which the right answer should NEVER start with..."Yeah - I was playing with this new cool TRUNCATE feature in production, right before the end of my last job...."
:w00t:
Heh... you KNOW that guy? I think he's the same one that found the silent version of DELTREE via xp_CmdShell 😛
Just in case someone thinks I've lost my mind... I never let Developers have write rights in the production environment... we go through code reviews, QA testing, Configuration Management, Change Controls, etc, etc. Most folks don't have that luxury... but they should consider adopted similar principles. Develope/Test on the Dev box... promote the code to production when testing is complete. Developers don't need write access to the production box...
By the way - that's one of the reasons I really enjoy SQL 2005...its integration with VSS2005. Yeah - I know, "yucko" VSS. It STILL does its job well from this side of the fence.
Developers can develop locally and check their code into VSS (yes - the SQL code: stored procs, functions, etc...), and ask that someone "publish" the code.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
November 27, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Actually... I like VSS. No, it won't merge your code for you or handle branches, etc, etc. But guess what? I'm not a Java programmer! 😉
If people know how to use it and actually take the time to say something like "Hey... I noticed you have the code I need to work on checked out... can I put some code in on top of yours?", then things work out well and a little social life with your team mates is achieved 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 27, 2007 at 4:54 pm
It's a simple answer. There are no good programmers, just like there are no good boys who want to date my daughter:w00t: They're all just closet hackers who are looking for the most efficient way to corrupt my precious data (gollum, gollum).
🙂
November 28, 2007 at 12:07 am
Andrew,
Andrew Stanton (11/27/2007)
Karith...My meaning is this... You asked a question (in the wrong forum) that had been addressed in many webpages and in its own forum post. Your question was worded in a very confusing manner and the answer was one that you should have known, given your title.
I am curious to know, do you work as an offshore resource for a US headquartered company, or do you have to work as part of a team that includes US resources?
Editor's Note: I have removed some inappropriate language from this and a previous post (quoted above)
karthik
December 2, 2007 at 11:54 pm
karthikeyan (11/28/2007)
If you know answer then post it otherwise dont try to chear other persons.Understood.
Who gave you the right to order people around here?
And please lay off on the insults (everybody). This is usually a nice friendly forum. Would be nice if it stayed that way.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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