May 22, 2014 at 9:43 am
Joe Zonum (5/21/2014)
I'd like to add my 2 cent for what its worth. I was recently laid off from a job I held for 10+ years. I had a good relationship with my old boss and later found out why. My salary was the main factor. Turns out I made a lot more than the other dba's I worked with. With that said, I feel I earned every penny I got. I was very surprised to hear how much less other dba's are willing to take to do the same job. I am happy to report, I got a job within a month making the same salary but with better benefits.I was always of the mind set that if I don't ask, I will not receive. Thru the years, I made it my mission to get yearly increase and then some. As the saying goes, the squeaky wheels gets the oil. "Squeak, Squeak"
so what are you worth? As much as you are willing to take to do the job. "Your salary may vary"!
I've worried about this before and I try to make more over time, but not so much that I get to the point where I may exceed my value. Or the value someone else can provide for less. It's certainly a fine line.
May 22, 2014 at 10:08 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (5/22/2014)
Joe Zonum (5/21/2014)
I'd like to add my 2 cent for what its worth. I was recently laid off from a job I held for 10+ years. I had a good relationship with my old boss and later found out why. My salary was the main factor. Turns out I made a lot more than the other dba's I worked with. With that said, I feel I earned every penny I got. I was very surprised to hear how much less other dba's are willing to take to do the same job. I am happy to report, I got a job within a month making the same salary but with better benefits.I was always of the mind set that if I don't ask, I will not receive. Thru the years, I made it my mission to get yearly increase and then some. As the saying goes, the squeaky wheels gets the oil. "Squeak, Squeak"
so what are you worth? As much as you are willing to take to do the job. "Your salary may vary"!
I've worried about this before and I try to make more over time, but not so much that I get to the point where I may exceed my value. Or the value someone else can provide for less. It's certainly a fine line.
Never had that problem! My experience has mostly been for companies that lowballed the starting salary, and don't pay market value. A lot of that has to do with where I live. I am usually someone that everybody depends on as well, so that helps.
I guess it is a good problem to have - being paid so well that one questions whether they are providing that level of value or service. I doubt many people are in that boat though.
I am wondering, Steve, if you might have a confidence issue? I can't imagine why, given your skills. So, <BIG GRIN>, there must be an awful lot of zeroes in your pay check for you to wonder about that!!! </BIG GRIN>
Dave
May 22, 2014 at 10:46 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (5/22/2014)
Joe Zonum (5/21/2014)
I'd like to add my 2 cent for what its worth. I was recently laid off from a job I held for 10+ years. I had a good relationship with my old boss and later found out why. My salary was the main factor. Turns out I made a lot more than the other dba's I worked with. With that said, I feel I earned every penny I got. I was very surprised to hear how much less other dba's are willing to take to do the same job. I am happy to report, I got a job within a month making the same salary but with better benefits.I was always of the mind set that if I don't ask, I will not receive. Thru the years, I made it my mission to get yearly increase and then some. As the saying goes, the squeaky wheels gets the oil. "Squeak, Squeak"
so what are you worth? As much as you are willing to take to do the job. "Your salary may vary"!
I've worried about this before and I try to make more over time, but not so much that I get to the point where I may exceed my value. Or the value someone else can provide for less. It's certainly a fine line.
I guess it's kind of like a career version of Blackjack; the goal is to get as close to that ideal salary as possible without going over, or else you lose and the closest player who didn't go over wins. Actually that's what a business or contractor does when they're set that ideal price for their products or service.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 22, 2014 at 11:21 am
I guess it's kind of like a career version of Blackjack; the goal is to get as close to that ideal salary as possible without going over, or else you lose and the closest player who didn't go over wins. Actually that's what a business or contractor does when they're set that ideal price for their products or service.
I agree... It was unfortunate I was let go. But I understood why... 1. company was not doing good. 2. I was in Cali vs. cheaper out of state employee's. 3. My higher salary.
But I would rather go out fighting vs. settling (knowing I am worth more)
May 22, 2014 at 11:41 am
Joe Zonum (5/22/2014)
I guess it's kind of like a career version of Blackjack; the goal is to get as close to that ideal salary as possible without going over, or else you lose and the closest player who didn't go over wins. Actually that's what a business or contractor does when they're set that ideal price for their products or service.
I agree... It was unfortunate I was let go. But I understood why... 1. company was not doing good. 2. I was in Cali vs. cheaper out of state employee's. 3. My higher salary.
But I would rather go out fighting vs. settling (knowing I am worth more)
Your boss should have simply explained to you that your salary was too high compared to the market. That would have given you an opportunity to work out a few weeks notice with them, wrap up your projects, and walk into another job.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 22, 2014 at 11:53 am
Your boss should have simply explained to you that your salary was too high compared to the market. That would have given you an opportunity to work out a few weeks notice with them, wrap up your projects, and walk into another job.
I was given a two week notice and a very nice exist package. Plus, I was right at market value; since I was able to get a new job at the same rate.:w00t:
May 22, 2014 at 12:10 pm
djackson 22568 (5/22/2014)
Never had that problem! My experience has mostly been for companies that lowballed the starting salary, and don't pay market value. A lot of that has to do with where I live. I am usually someone that everybody depends on as well, so that helps.
I guess it is a good problem to have - being paid so well that one questions whether they are providing that level of value or service. I doubt many people are in that boat though.
I am wondering, Steve, if you might have a confidence issue? I can't imagine why, given your skills. So, <BIG GRIN>, there must be an awful lot of zeroes in your pay check for you to wonder about that!!! </BIG GRIN>
I wish I had a lot of zeros. As a senior DBA, I was at the upper end of the scale, and I've seen that create problems for companies. I had a guy working for me at one point that maxed out as a DBA. He wanted more money, and we shifted his title. However when a round of layoffs came, he was talked about (inside management) as being let go because he was too expensive and didn't necessarily do more for the company to meet his paycheck. He survived, but I left as a manager and not sure how long they kept him after that.
It doesn't matter if you're payed market or not, it's a relative number. If you make $80k as a senior DBA, but there are 3 other DBAs making $50k, at some point you have to be sure that management sees that you're providing 60% more value somehow than the others. You easily could be, but if your salary grows over years to $90k, or $100k, are you double the other people?
Personally I've wanted to be slightly undervalued in salary (I give back more than I make) to prevent getting into a situation where someone questions my value.
May 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm
Eric M Russell (5/22/2014)
Your boss should have simply explained to you that your salary was too high compared to the market. That would have given you an opportunity to work out a few weeks notice with them, wrap up your projects, and walk into another job.
It doesn't sound like he was let go because his salary was above market. It sounds like they wanted to trim down, and he was the easy target because he made more than his coworkers.
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (5/22/2014)
I've worried about this before and I try to make more over time, but not so much that I get to the point where I may exceed my value. Or the value someone else can provide for less. It's certainly a fine line.
I'm not sure its worth worrying about, to be honest.
Yes, this can happen (whenever costs are being cut, the big salaries stand out), but I don't think its really worth accepting less in the hopes that it keeps you from being cut.
If I started to worry my compensation was getting top-heavy (one of those nice problems), I would pay extra attention to keeping my skills up to date and a good network just in case. But leaving money on the table just to hope it leads to longevity doesn't make sense to me.
May 22, 2014 at 12:25 pm
Nevyn (5/22/2014)
Eric M Russell (5/22/2014)
Your boss should have simply explained to you that your salary was too high compared to the market. That would have given you an opportunity to work out a few weeks notice with them, wrap up your projects, and walk into another job.
It doesn't sound like he was let go because his salary was above market. It sounds like they wanted to trim down, and he was the easy target because he made more than his coworkers.
They thought his salary was too high relative to the market value for whatever skillset they needed. For example, perhaps he was a master level DBA in a position that the employer considered only required an average level skillset, thus the market price for his position was maybe $20,000 less than what they were paying him.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 22, 2014 at 2:25 pm
Yes, this can happen (whenever costs are being cut, the big salaries stand out), but I don't think its really worth accepting less in the hopes that it keeps you from being cut.
If I started to worry my compensation was getting top-heavy (one of those nice problems), I would pay extra attention to keeping my skills up to date and a good network just in case. But leaving money on the table just to hope it leads to longevity doesn't make sense to me.
Well said.... the way I see it... how much more $$$$ did I make over the years before I got let go? 50-70-100K over my teammates?
I'll take this bet any day over worrying about getting let go solely based on my salary.
May 24, 2014 at 7:59 am
SQLRNNR (5/21/2014)
Aeterna (5/19/2014)
I'd also suggest going over the contract in detail and be prepared to reject any job offer if you don't like the contractual terms. Companies will then either refuse to renegotiate (in which case, your decision is right), will explain the terms, or will amend the terms following a renegotiation.It gives you a flavour of how they will deal with any future concerns you might have regarding salaries, working time, etc.
Very good point.
In addition to nitpicking the contract and asking for what you are worth in dollars and cents, I recommend negotiating the benefits. If you can negotiate and extra week or two of starting vacation, it could be a very worthwhile opportunity even if it is less money than you had hoped to get.
Negotiating starting vacation? I've never heard of that. I just assumed that whatever it was, it was fixed in stone.
Rod
May 24, 2014 at 8:05 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (5/22/2014)
Joe Zonum (5/21/2014)
I'd like to add my 2 cent for what its worth. I was recently laid off from a job I held for 10+ years. I had a good relationship with my old boss and later found out why. My salary was the main factor. Turns out I made a lot more than the other dba's I worked with. With that said, I feel I earned every penny I got. I was very surprised to hear how much less other dba's are willing to take to do the same job. I am happy to report, I got a job within a month making the same salary but with better benefits.I was always of the mind set that if I don't ask, I will not receive. Thru the years, I made it my mission to get yearly increase and then some. As the saying goes, the squeaky wheels gets the oil. "Squeak, Squeak"
so what are you worth? As much as you are willing to take to do the job. "Your salary may vary"!
I've worried about this before and I try to make more over time, but not so much that I get to the point where I may exceed my value. Or the value someone else can provide for less. It's certainly a fine line.
I want to make a point off of what you just said here, Steve. My salary was fine back in 2008 (when it was last updated). Its the situation which has changed. I've mentioned this before, but our operating budget has shrunk nearly 60% since 2008. A salary that's fine for the work that I do, only became not fine when the budget kept shrinking. My point is that a salary that's fine today may become "unfine" tomorrow, due to things that you have no control over and more important no way of being able to predict.
Rod
May 24, 2014 at 9:43 am
Doctor Who 2 (5/24/2014)
Negotiating starting vacation? I've never heard of that. I just assumed that whatever it was, it was fixed in stone.
I haven't had good luck with this at larger companies, but at smaller ones I've been able to get this changed.
May 24, 2014 at 11:07 am
Doctor Who 2 (5/24/2014)
Negotiating starting vacation? I've never heard of that. I just assumed that whatever it was, it was fixed in stone.
Its definitely worth doing when the dollar figure gets close.
Even if the policies are set in stone (about length of service and corresponding vacation days), sometimes they can work around that by given you more credit for years worked at other jobs.
Even when they can't do a thing, its another way to get them to up the dollar figure. For example, when I pointed out an offer had fewer days than I currently had with another job off, the employer offered to give the the difference in unpaid days off if I needed them (until I had enough service to get back to that number of paid days). And then they increased the salary number by that number of paid days to make it net out.
Never took the unpaid days off, just cashed the extra money.
May 24, 2014 at 12:04 pm
Doctor Who 2 (5/24/2014)
SQLRNNR (5/21/2014)
Aeterna (5/19/2014)
I'd also suggest going over the contract in detail and be prepared to reject any job offer if you don't like the contractual terms. Companies will then either refuse to renegotiate (in which case, your decision is right), will explain the terms, or will amend the terms following a renegotiation.It gives you a flavour of how they will deal with any future concerns you might have regarding salaries, working time, etc.
Very good point.
In addition to nitpicking the contract and asking for what you are worth in dollars and cents, I recommend negotiating the benefits. If you can negotiate and extra week or two of starting vacation, it could be a very worthwhile opportunity even if it is less money than you had hoped to get.
Negotiating starting vacation? I've never heard of that. I just assumed that whatever it was, it was fixed in stone.
I don't usually negotiate the leave days initially, but at raise/review time I will try and negotiate for extra leave in return for a slightly lower increase, assuming of course that the pay is already acceptable (have enough money left over after monthly expenses)
My view there is that having money but no time to spend it is not a situation I like being in.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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