July 6, 2011 at 7:26 am
1) Yes. Basic training in 1986. Officer Basic in 1991. As much different as Basic and a SQL boot camp. Also recently attended a PMP bootcamp.
2) I think it could be valuable.
There are a lot of accidental DBA's who get the job by being a good developer with a general understanding of RDBMS's. That was the situation I was in when handed a SQL Server to take care of. This could be marketed as something to take them from "accidental" to "accomplished". As a manager, I don't think I would pay for more than 2 weeks of training at a time, though -- that creates too much of a strain on everyone else in the team and is cost prohibitive. One week is much more preferable.
However, if it were marketed through educational institutions (much like the MCSE was), the employees could attend night classes for a more extensive time. This would also move the money from the training budget to the HR educational re-imbursement budget. I know its the same amount, but it matters.
July 6, 2011 at 7:27 am
not being as seasoned as I would like to be as a DBA the idea of there being a "boot camp" so I could go to one place and get "all the answers" and help avoid some of the same painfull pit falls many of my seniors have experienced natrually sounds appealing. However like many have said- time- how long would be sufficient and how many have the weeks to give. money- need i say more and how fast everything changes in this field... use a cursor- dont use a cursor; shrink your database- Dont shrink your database tough to keep up. There is a lot to be said though from learning through experience- make a big change once without making a backup copy before you start...and have it go wrong- you will NEVER do that again.
July 6, 2011 at 7:38 am
1. No, I haven't attended one.
2. I think a reasonably priced, focused "boot camp" offered on the weekends or after normal business hours would be great. I'd like to see the camps sliced into a la carte sections: querying, design, performance, etc. As for the the week-long camps, they are mostly designed for passing certifications, and I think that's fine, though not much can be achieved in a week when many topics spread so thin. Still, the camps offer a lot of valuable exposure.
It would be great if this could be done on a not-for-profit basis and at a low cost to the camper, who might be paying for it herself. Classes and camps are generally overpriced.
July 6, 2011 at 7:47 am
1) No military boot camp for me, but my summer field geology course was a mini-geology boot camp. Just more fun and with better food.
2) I think it would be a wonderful idea. There are so many people working with SQL databases in one form or another who are learning as they go and making big mistakes along the way, or hitting the ceiling of what they can "figure out". Week long boot camps at several levels (and/or several different foci) would be superbly helpful.
--
Anye Mercy
"Service Unavailable is not an Error" -- John, ENOM support
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -- Inigo Montoya in "Princess Bride"
"Civilization exists by geologic consent, subject to change without notice." -- Will Durant
July 6, 2011 at 7:49 am
1. No havent attended any.
2. Good idea. It should be from 2 weeks to 4 weeks and should cover almost all the areas which DBA is required.
Thanks
July 6, 2011 at 7:56 am
1) Yes, 2008 (I enlisted late in life, at 35)
2) I think the analogy doesn't hold, for a simple reason someone suggested above - a DBA is much more complicated than what basic training is designed to do. It's more like an E7/E8 kind of role. Basic training teaches you some basic soldiering skills (and basic bed-making skills, and basic stand-in-line-and-shut-up skills, and basic flutter-kick-and-push-up skills), all geared towards teaching you how to think like a soldier - good of the team, look out for your buddy, trust your equipment, never quit, you can do more than you ever thought you could - and while that's important for a platoon sergeant or staff NCO to have gone through, what makes that guy good at his job are his 8-12 years of experience.
A basic training program for DBA's would be most effective if you could go back and send them through it back at the beginning of their careers...
July 6, 2011 at 8:22 am
1) Yes, November 1968 - Navy boot in San Diego
2) I would have to agree with earlier posts that a boot camp may not "suffice" for DBAs. I myself have taken advantage of the "Stairway" articles that have been written by more experienced DBAs than I about SQL functions I need to know more about. Perhaps, over time, these "Stairway" series can be organized to include the previously noted range of 'beginning' subject matter that any "basic DBA" needs to know, right when they get shoved into the pool....so to speak.
It certainly is not much fun the very first time that server bezel is blinking orange, instead of blue/green. Knowing where to start should be one of the 'basics' any new DBA is taught, or pointed to by someone with more experience. We all have faced that first hard drive failure, or the numerous, non-stop phone calls from the Help Desk that so and so can't get into their database...
So...some sort of 'basic' may be a good idea. Depends on how it is organized and taught.
July 6, 2011 at 8:23 am
Honestly I think a "boot camp" would probably not work, since as stated before being a DBA is a fairly complicated prospect, even at a basic level. Not to mention, we are constantly striving for change, for bigger, better, and keep up with the technology. The military on the other hand has a much slower rate of change. I seriously doubt someone going through bootcamp today would find it any different than 20 years ago.
All that being said, I think that training classes, maybe a few college courses/degree plan for DBAs would be nice. Then someone who is seriously interested in becoming a DBA, or a company that wants a DBA training course could utilize them. Its been a few years since I went to college, and maybe things have changed since then, but when I went there were some very basic classes on information technology, but they weren't even in the computer department. They were considered part of the business department, and didn't count towards a CS degree.
Kenneth
Kenneth FisherI was once offered a wizards hat but it got in the way of my dunce cap.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------For better, quicker answers on T-SQL questions, click on the following... http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/[/url]For better answers on performance questions, click on the following... http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/SQLServerCentral/66909/[/url]Link to my Blog Post --> www.SQLStudies.com[/url]
July 6, 2011 at 9:05 am
course is necessary because we often encounter situations that we have not covered in the training and do not know how to handle the situation and learn but not the best way.
July 6, 2011 at 9:49 am
Have never attended boot camp; the military never appealed to me and I was never drafted.
I think some have gotten too caught up in the term "boot camp". Call it whatever you want but a basic training package is an excellent idea for any field. As someone with a long background in research and development, having been thrust into the DBA role has been quite a challenge. I would relish an opportunity to attend some basic training courses.
Concerns expressed about time and cost are valid. Online and/or nighttime training would be best. I would especially like a set of online videos to watch which includes practicum. That being followed by a live online session with other students at the same level interacting with an instructor. This would keep the cost down significantly. I would venture a lot of supervisors would even be willing to give time off during business hours as I'm sure every live session would include individuals from various time zones.
July 6, 2011 at 9:51 am
1) Yes. July 23rd 1970, Fort Leonard Wood Missouri in the brutal heat.
The mere thought of boot camp causes me to curl up in the fetal position under my desk and sob like a little girl, so I wouldn’t call it that.
July 6, 2011 at 9:54 am
1. Yes Navy boot camp San Diego 1978.
2. If the cost were reasonable then maybe. However, calling it a boot camp might not work for many. many of those "cram" boot camps leave a bad taste in people's mouths. Might need to call it something else. Also the idea of being to do some of the training online might make it more reasonable.
Is PASS Summit sort of an advanced 3 day boot camp?
July 6, 2011 at 10:12 am
1. Yes - 1974, Ft Jackson SC
2. No - Though the concept is good, IMHO I do not think it is a viable solution.
First, what is the standardized definition of a DBA? Many have their own opinions.
Look for a single job description of a DBA. You will find many philosphies. If there is no standard, how do you train for one?
So now you are creating your own standard in your training, which may not be so bad either. But now what are your core subjects and how do you measure success? Would it be a requirement to pass certifications as a measure? What do you do in the case of those who have a total experience of book learning? What about development? Part of the job of being a DBA in many places is to be able to work with developers, and being to read/write code. So on and on it goes.
Yes, I believe in the concept, but there is a lot of work to get there.
Just my opinion.
Steve Jimmo
Sr DBA
“If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
July 6, 2011 at 10:29 am
I have attended boot camp (military and DB).
I kind of agree that we need some sort of standardize training program. I learned my DB skill via Oracle Schools. I learned from the ground up, relational db design, queries, procedures etc. Then on to managing a server, OS, DB, networking etc. I became a MCSE for NT 3.51, 4.0 and 2000. Then moved to specialize in DB with SQL 6.0, 6.5, etc.
The problem I have today is no one teaches these basics. I have developers who constantly fight me on using store procs. table design, ad hoc queries, indexes and the need to performance tune. My SA, don't understand end to end performance issues and troubleshooting and the network and SAN guys are just as bad. All they see is their own little world and can't understand why I want to KNOW what is happening as it effect the performance of the database and applications.
YES we need a formal training program for developers, DBA, networking and Server Admins.
Raymond Laubert
Exceptional DBA of 2009 Finalist
MCT, MCDBA, MCITP:SQL 2005 Admin,
MCSE, OCP:10g
July 6, 2011 at 10:31 am
I have not attended but would like to attend a DBA Boot Camp.
Your editorial makes lots of sense. A real course doesn't last a week to be able to say you're a profession XYZ. I agree that all administrators, DBA, SA, NA, etc, should have a serious boot camp as we are the custodians our our organizations most sensitive data and the core of the business engine. We have to take Network+. Security+ and A+ as a requirement for certain positions and industries especially the military. There are various certifications from Microsoft or Oracle or whomever to show that we are professionals. I'm not sure how a 12-16 week boot camp would work for employers and employees as you'd have to be away from your work for a few months. Does your employer keep paying you? Do they pay for it? Will you be able to remotely do your work? We're all basically help desk. Can we take calls from our internal or external customers?
Andy, I really think it's an excellent idea. Implementation seems to be a problem. I'd like to see another article on how to really implement it.
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