February 15, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Robert Davis (2/15/2012)
No, I'm quite serious. Please feel free to purchase the so called MCM materials those sites offer. I assure you that it won't help you pass.If someone is offering to sell you something illegal, you can't take them at their word that what they're selling you is real.
First, you said there were no braindumps for the MCM. Then, after you asking for proof, I showed you 4 sites for starters. They are all over the Internet. You need to do your homework before making "sweeping" statements like "defamatory" sir. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 15, 2012 at 12:04 pm
TravisDBA (2/15/2012)
First, you said there were no braindumps for the MCM. Then, after you asking for proof, I showed you 4 for starters, they are all over the Internet. You need to do your homework before making "catchall" statements, sir. 😀
Travis - showing an order form for something is not showing proof that it exists. You know that, right?
If you don't know that, here's proof that leprechauns who poop rainbows exist:
Order Form for Rainbow-Pooping Leprechaun: $99.95. Quantity desired: ____
February 15, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Brent Ozar (2/15/2012)
TravisDBA (2/15/2012)
First, you said there were no braindumps for the MCM. Then, after you asking for proof, I showed you 4 for starters, they are all over the Internet. You need to do your homework before making "catchall" statements, sir. 😀Travis - showing an order form for something is not showing proof that it exists. You know that, right?
If you don't know that, here's proof that leprechauns who poop rainbows exist:
Order Form for Rainbow-Pooping Leprechaun: $99.95. Quantity desired: ____
So, what you are basically saying is I or anyone else has never ordered and actually got a usable braindump from one of those sites just to confirm that they DO in fact exist? Would you like to put a little money on that my man? 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 15, 2012 at 12:11 pm
I checked out all of those sites you provided links to, and none of them are selling MCM brain dumps. On the contrary, they are selling simulations that their experts have created. They actually state to not try to use any brain dumps for MCM you may find because they are not real and will not lead to successfully passing the MCM.
You need to understand that Microsoft MCM taking shortcuts for MCM certification course will not lead to Microsoft MCM success, but will disappoint you in the end. These Microsoft free MCM braindumps are nothing but Microsoft MCM questions, which are not related to the actual Microsoft Certified Master exam.
February 15, 2012 at 12:13 pm
TravisDBA (2/15/2012)
So, what you are basically saying is I or anyone else has never ordered and actually got a usable braindump from one of those sites just to confirm that they DO in fact exist? Would you like to put a little money on that my man? 😀
Absolutely - in fact, I'll put a lot of money on it. I'll bet you $650 right here and now that you can't pass the MCM knowledge exam in the next 7 days. That $650 covers both the cost of the exam plus the cost of the braindump.
Ball's in your court.
February 15, 2012 at 12:17 pm
There a lab too, you forget. 7 days is a little tight, even for you Bret. I still say MCM usable braindumps are available. If you choose not to believe that, that is just fine.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 15, 2012 at 12:21 pm
TravisDBA (2/15/2012)
There a lab too, you forget. 7 days is a little tight, even for you Bret. I still say MCM usable braindumps are available. If you choose not to believe that, that is just fine.:-D
You don't even have to pass the lab to win the bet, just the written. I'm putting money down that the braindumps don't even cover the written exam, let alone the lab. If you had a real braindump, you still couldn't pass the exam in 7 days? That tells me you don't really believe it either. Nice try though.
February 15, 2012 at 12:28 pm
You're making unfounded claims that defame the program and its members. Since I'm both (PM of the program and an MCM), I'm doubly offended by your unfounded claims. Even worse, you persist in your claims even after your attempts to provide evidence proved false.
February 15, 2012 at 1:10 pm
Relax Robert, no one is defaming anyone personally. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 15, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Well, hasn't this turned into a lively debate. Where's my popcorn??
Robert, it's a pleasure to see your input. Sometimes these discussions seem to just go off into the ether.
For me, there are/were a few "problems" with MS certification generally:
- MS didn't manage the certification program very well at it's inception (15 years ago?). Every man and his dog could get one and Microsoft liked it that way.
- At one point (circa 2000) certs became so diltued as to have no value. Indeed, some even had negative value (e.g. NT4).
- Cert exams have a fair amount of focus on new product features which makes it a quasi-marketing effort. As you know, IT and marketing get along like starving dogs and wet cats.
- You can have a vast amount of experience and "fail" to pass an exam. Not because you don't know anything - quite the contrary. No, you failed because you didn't realise the WITH option as presented in answer B. Gimmie a break. This is why we have Books Online.
Now, with the MCM (and MCA) cert, Microsoft is trying to right the wrongs of the past. However, there are a few challenges here:
- MS has a long-standing stigma around all of the certs thanks to the likes of Braindump and exam preps.
- The MCM & MCA certs are in a different league to the MCTS and MCITP certs. However, you have to get the lower ones first and their value is...questionable. Guilt by association.
- By lowering the financial bar (was $25k, now $2500) there is the risk of lowering the perceived value. Perception is everything.
- Where's the actual value? Not just for my ego or to be "recognised" by Microsoft. I want better work, peer recognition and even exclusive benefits for my efforts. Give me hard ROI.
For me, Brent's casual (yet valuable) testimonial might be just enough to tip me off the fence into the "certs are good" camp. The demonstration of real value from someone with lots of reputation points cannot be underestimated. Like Roger Federer selling Gillette razors. Yes, I buy them because I like Fed and he always has a clean shave (though I wonder if he even has facial hair). I'm not suggesting paid testimonials but surely that kind of voluntary goodwill is worth an MSDN subscription (for life).
So, in closing I believe the MCM & MCA certs are definitely worthy and have value. Please don't screw them up 🙂
James Stover, McDBA
February 16, 2012 at 6:49 am
James Stover (2/15/2012)
You can have a vast amount of experience and "fail" to pass an exam. Not because you don't know anything - quite the contrary. No, you failed because you didn't realise the WITH option as presented in answer B. Gimmie a break. This is why we have Books Online.
In that case, perhaps one's experience wasn't quite as 'vast' as they thought, and preparing for the exam might fill in some gaps. That ties in with Steve's idea of using certification to further one's career, and sounds like a good idea to me.
February 16, 2012 at 6:55 am
James Stover (2/15/2012)
For me, Brent's casual (yet valuable) testimonial might be just enough to tip me off the fence into the "certs are good" camp.
Why, thanks sir. Just to clarify, I still think the MCITP tests are worse than worthless, and when I see one on a resume I actually think less of the candidate rather than more. I'm hoping the SQL 2012 tests fix that, but I think so much damage has been done that it'll take years for employers to change their minds on that one. I've just interviewed too many paper tigers.
The selfish part of me didn't want to post my thoughts about the MCM's worth here because part of the worth is the exclusivity. My MCM is worth more because few people have it, and as more people get it, the worth will go down. I'm okay with that, though, because it's only part of my worth, and I really wish every good DBA (not the paper tigers) could have a cert that really shows they know their stuff. Right now, the MCM is that cert.
February 16, 2012 at 7:31 am
I have mixed opinions on certifications and blogs. Every MCM I've personally met knows SQL Server to an extreme degree. Most of the good Windows sys admins that I know, that really know Windows Server/Admin don't have certifications or don't claim them due to the hoardes of posers/brain-dump-zombies. On the developer side there's "developer" blogs and articles that are posted on the internet that are simple re-writes of MSDN info or very simple crap code in order to build reputation. (AKA many of the "The Code Project" submissions.)
I'll probably never be an MCM. I'm currently too much a jack-of-all-trades to spend 100% of my time on SQL Server. I will work on the "lower" SQL certifications in order to educate myself to areas of SQL Server that I don't encounter in my daily work, that's their value to me.
February 16, 2012 at 7:42 am
Brent Ozar (2/15/2012)
TravisDBA (2/15/2012)
First, you said there were no braindumps for the MCM. Then, after you asking for proof, I showed you 4 for starters, they are all over the Internet. You need to do your homework before making "catchall" statements, sir. 😀Travis - showing an order form for something is not showing proof that it exists. You know that, right?
If you don't know that, here's proof that leprechauns who poop rainbows exist:
Order Form for Rainbow-Pooping Leprechaun: $99.95. Quantity desired: ____
Damn, damn, damn!!!! They told me that there were only 2 rainbow pooping leprechauns when I bought them!
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 16, 2012 at 10:59 am
Damn, damn, damn!!!! They told me that there were only 2 rainbow pooping leprechauns when I bought them!
Better feed them lots of fiber, otherwise it will be Rainbow-By-Agonizing-Rainbow! 😀
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