February 13, 2012 at 4:47 pm
Brent Ozar (2/13/2012)
Ha! Thanks, sir.I can't see myself doing the MCA anytime soon. I'm not sure if I could pass it, but I'm quite sure I don't deserve to pass it. I don't do enough ground-up architecture work to feel like I could defend that certification personally. I have tremendous respect for guys like Christian Bolton who've earned that cert the hard way. 😀
Or...maybe the MCA will open up a few magic architecture doors.
Guys like Christian make me think of Dr. Manhattan (from The Watchmen): superpowered and omnipresent. It's the only explanation 🙂
James Stover, McDBA
February 13, 2012 at 6:55 pm
Mike Palecek (2/13/2012)
I have always held that having certifications in general do not mean anything, however NOT having the certifications means a whole lot.
Everyone that I hire has to pass the same interview. Well, not entirely true. I'm actually a bit tougher on people who have certs because they're "certified to know something".
I've told the story before but I don't trust certs or degrees. I only trust what I find out during the interview(s). My old boss hired a Java Lead Developer based just on his resume and his pedigree of having a PHD in Mathematics. The position required some knowledge of numbering systems and conversions. I was asked to interview the guy (I didn't know they already hired him) and he couldn't even do the simple conversion of 1416 to X10 never mind any boolean math (simple AND/OR math). My recommendation was "No Hire" and when I found out he'd already been hired, I predicted that he'd last about 90 days before he quit because he wouldn't be able to keep up.
Sadly, I was correct.
With the possible exception of MCM and MCA (and only because they have to pass practical exams as well as written), I just don't trust certs or degrees to mean that a person can actually do the job.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 13, 2012 at 6:56 pm
MCM, MCITP, MCTS... All three levels of certification needs time, money and surely "show that you have some knowledge about a product, even if it's something you memorized for the exam. They show you're motivated to learn about this particular technology, and interested enough in your career to do so" like Steve said.
I work in a small place that do not have the budget to have a DBadmin and push me the job to learn database and SQL language over my normal job. Belive me: it is not easy for every one. I am trying to pass my MCTS, and I can't get more than 60% on the "prepare kit simulation".
I agree with Mike "Not having them: You cannot even be bothered to take a silly exam and pass? Especially when the next three candidates have them". I might be hard for some people but if you are that good, it should not be that hard to pass the exam. If you have the power, use it, lucky you!
February 14, 2012 at 9:57 am
tilew-948340 (2/13/2012)
MCM, MCITP, MCTS... All three levels of certification needs time, money and surely "show that you have some knowledge about a product, even if it's something you memorized for the exam. They show you're motivated to learn about this particular technology, and interested enough in your career to do so" like Steve said.I work in a small place that do not have the budget to have a DBadmin and push me the job to learn database and SQL language over my normal job. Belive me: it is not easy for every one. I am trying to pass my MCTS, and I can't get more than 60% on the "prepare kit simulation".
I agree with Mike "Not having them: You cannot even be bothered to take a silly exam and pass? Especially when the next three candidates have them". I might be hard for some people but if you are that good, it should not be that hard to pass the exam. If you have the power, use it, lucky you!
These certifications are "hollow" IMHO as long as actual braindumps are available on them on the Internet, and they are, even the MCM. To use an analogy, it's kind of like dealing with someone who has counterfeit currency. What you think someone has in their pocket is not actually what they have, and you, (or your company) gets ripped off as a result..:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 14, 2012 at 5:17 pm
TravisDBA (2/14/2012)
tilew-948340 (2/13/2012)
MCM, MCITP, MCTS... All three levels of certification needs time, money and surely "show that you have some knowledge about a product, even if it's something you memorized for the exam. They show you're motivated to learn about this particular technology, and interested enough in your career to do so" like Steve said.I work in a small place that do not have the budget to have a DBadmin and push me the job to learn database and SQL language over my normal job. Belive me: it is not easy for every one. I am trying to pass my MCTS, and I can't get more than 60% on the "prepare kit simulation".
I agree with Mike "Not having them: You cannot even be bothered to take a silly exam and pass? Especially when the next three candidates have them". I might be hard for some people but if you are that good, it should not be that hard to pass the exam. If you have the power, use it, lucky you!
These certifications are "hollow" IMHO as long as actual braindumps are available on them on the Internet, and they are, even the MCM. To use an analogy, it's kind of like dealing with someone who has counterfeit currency. What you think someone has in their pocket is not actually what they have, and you, (or your company) gets ripped off as a result..:-D
Well...maybe. I want to agree but there are reasons not to. Brent Ozar shared his opinion & experience with the MCM. Because of his reputation in the SQL community I can't just dismiss it based on my personal bias (against certification). I am casting certs in a different light. I'm going to give in to the MS marketing machine and see it as a path to achievement: each certification level builds on the last until you reach the top tier (i.e. MCA). Kind of like a PhD for SQL 🙂 And each level is more difficult that the previous one. Not just in knowledge but also in attainment. You don't just waltz into a Prometric test facility, pay $200 and walk out an MCM or MCA. You sweat bullets and spend gobs of time and a fair amount of cash to get there.
But saying that, you definitely need experience to back up those certs. I certainly wouldn't put a 25 year-old MBA "nugget" (thanks BSG) in a high-level executive role. That experiment (generally) failed with the likes of pets.com and the legendary sock puppet. Likewise, if you have 1/2 a dozen certs and no experience to back it up, you are essentially a paper soldier.
So, perhaps a more positive way of seeing certs is as a complement to a level of knowledge and experience you already have. A validation, if you will. That's my newly-formed humble opinion.
James Stover, McDBA
February 15, 2012 at 9:07 am
Likewise, if you have 1/2 a dozen certs and no experience to back it up, you are essentially a paper soldier.
My point exactly, and as long as people can braindump these exams, even the MCM, there are going to be alot of counterfeit paper soldiers out there. I put very little weight to them personally, until they get rid of the accessibility to braindumps online. Because they cheapen and bring into question the whole certification process IMHO. Brent Ozar's brilliant reputation and track history speaks for itself anyway, regardless of the fact he has an MCM, or that he has done many of the MCM Readiness videos. That is not what I am talking about here. I am talking about the "counterfeit paper soldiers" that are memorizing braindumps to pass exams and are deceiving hiring managers out there they can do a job they really can't. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 15, 2012 at 9:37 am
There are no brain dumps for the MCM. We have taken considerable steps to ensure that is not possible.
If you feel otherwise please point these alleged brain dumps out. I know there are brain dumps for the lower certifications, but not for the MCM. So please provide proof of your defamatory claims.
February 15, 2012 at 10:12 am
Robert Davis (2/15/2012)
If you feel otherwise please point these alleged brain dumps out.
Here's everything you need to know to pass the MCM lab:
Drop all the primary keys.
Then just close the exam. Trust me. It's like up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-B-A-Start. Instant pass, plus unlimited ammo.
February 15, 2012 at 10:14 am
There are plenty of people using braindumps, plenty that memorize some things, and plenty that use their knowledge.
A certification isn't worthless. You use the interview to determine if someone actually learned things, has experience, and can do the job.
February 15, 2012 at 10:18 am
Very well said, Steve. One of my favorite interview questions is to ask someone who is certified how they prepared for the certification exams. It gives me insight into how seriously they took the exams and at what knowledge level they should be based on how they prepared. for example, if someone tells me that they didn't prepare at all, that they just walked in and took all of the Pro level exams, then I should be able to ask them any Pro level question and have them handle it with ease.
February 15, 2012 at 10:22 am
Robert Davis (2/15/2012)
for example, if someone tells me that they didn't prepare at all, that they just walked in and took all of the Pro level exams, then I should be able to ask them any Pro level question and have them handle it with ease.
I didn't do that. Don't ask me any pro level questions. At least not from your perspective.
February 15, 2012 at 10:29 am
Brent Ozar (2/15/2012)
Robert Davis (2/15/2012)
If you feel otherwise please point these alleged brain dumps out.Here's everything you need to know to pass the MCM lab:
Drop all the primary keys.
Then just close the exam. Trust me. It's like up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-B-A-Start. Instant pass, plus unlimited ammo.
Don't you need to shrink the database after dropping the keys? 😉
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 15, 2012 at 11:23 am
GilaMonster (2/15/2012)
Don't you need to shrink the database after dropping the keys? 😉
See, that's why you're not a real MCM yet. An MCM turns on auto-shrink to make sure the problem keeps coming back and ensure future consulting revenue. 😎
February 15, 2012 at 11:43 am
Robert Davis (2/15/2012)
There are no brain dumps for the MCM. We have taken considerable steps to ensure that is not possible.If you feel otherwise please point these alleged brain dumps out. I know there are brain dumps for the lower certifications, but not for the MCM. So please provide proof of your defamatory claims.
Are you actually kidding? :w00t: There are MCM braindumps all over the Internet derived from actual tests. Here is just four sites for starters, I can provide, many more. :):-D
http://www.brain-dumps.ca/certification/MCM.html
http://www.actualtests.mobi/actualtests-MCM.html
http://www.sure-braindumps.com/cert/MCM.htm
http://www.braindumps.co/Microsoft-certification.htm
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 15, 2012 at 11:57 am
No, I'm quite serious. Please feel free to purchase the so called MCM materials those sites offer. I assure you that it won't help you pass.
If someone is offering to sell you something illegal, you can't take them at their word that what they're selling you is real.
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