March 6, 2009 at 6:16 am
How about creating an "official non-union" to publish a reasonable list of benefits that employers should expect to offer in order to attract and retain good employees. Workers could voluntarily sign it like a petition to demonstrate mass support and companies could voluntarily comply to generate positive publicity (the carrot) and to aviod unionization (the stick).
Isn't it an interesting coincidence that in SQL we have UNIONs that JOIN together various members to generate a RESULT.
March 6, 2009 at 6:18 am
I suppose more time off would be nice, but then I would become lazy and complain about my contract all the time. The fundamental problem would be that unions attempt to make all workers equal which really takes away the desire to elevate your abilities since there really is no reason to, being average generates the same amount of money.
I don't know who only gives 2 weeks of vacation in the US that is past a year or two of experience, I have been places that have 2 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick leave. Most treat sick leave as something to have for "mental health days" . We have a good amount of holidays, if you work for gov't there is one every few weeks. Nothing close to Europe however.
Unions would do for tech what they did for the auto industry. When I am laid off, I can get full pay and go sit in the union hall and read the paper.
Cheers
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March 6, 2009 at 6:26 am
The one thing on the list I used to have, but don't anymore is paid certification tests. Fifteen years ago, a test was around $100, and all my employers would reimburse me for any IT test I passed. The last few I've looked at have been $400-$900 per test, and my employer doesn't cover any of those costs.
March 6, 2009 at 6:36 am
A lot of people who aren't in unions today seem to have forgotten (or never taken) history lessons regarding about how and why unions came about. Even without unions now, we would not have the vacations we do have, maybe the pay we do have, certainly the 8 hour day, without the unions that many of our grandparents and great grandparents (and maybe even parents) belong to before us.
Does that mean I think unions are the greatest thing since sliced cheese? Not necessarily, but sometimes one does need a group structure to make sure that businesses don't take advantage of their employees (which I often think happens more than we admit in the IT industry).
But going back to the topic at hand, my one preference would be a prohibition on being on call when you are on vacation, taking personal time, etc. That, and maybe not being required to give your cell phone number so you can be reached anytime, anywhere.
March 6, 2009 at 6:36 am
Paid training, conferences in Bora Bora (sounds exotic), free virtual world for IT, coffee each morning served by my favorite V.P., big flat screen monitors. IT rules!
Wait...isn't this a humor poll?!! It is Friday after all.
March 6, 2009 at 6:42 am
Retraining?...How about training? I haven't had any employer funded training since 1994.
Ergo Chairs?...I once worked for a company that would not provide an ergo key board when I had a broken wrist.
Extra Vacation?...Worked for a company that wouldn't let you take the vacation you'd already accrued.
Medical Benefits?...Worked for a company that put me in the hospital
Telecommuting?...Worked for a company that made you come in to fix late night problems...even though they had remote access.
Professional Advancement?...Went from 1 of 5 DBAs to 1 of 1 DBAs supporting 150 servers and 1000 databases and was told, "I'd have to do more" to get a promotion.
Overtime?...I was one pay grade too high to receive overtime.
Holidays?...Worked every one at least once in 25 years.
Retirement?...what's that?
:w00t:
What we should be bargaining for is humain treatment.
March 6, 2009 at 6:49 am
Weekly massage sessions, Roof top pool side bars, and little paper umbrellas in the drinks.
No, seriously. I don't want to get smashed at work, but I really would like to work outside during nice weather whilst sipping something cold and frothy...
March 6, 2009 at 6:51 am
2 weeks is the "standard" for new hires, but employees who have been w/ the company longer will likely have much more. Ditto for "special" employees who have in-demand skills who may have negotiated more vacation time.
My research into the benefit/detriment of unions is generalized as follows:
Unions are a "net good" for undeveloped or, in many cases, emerging (developing) economies. Unions are "bad" for economies that are developed, like those of the US, western Europe, etc.
So, I don't favor unions in light of the fact that I live in the United States. If I lived in Bolivia, I might find unions an attractive option.
First-world romanticism of unions is due to the perception that "fatcats" are in charge and wield power unjustly and that unions would keep evil corporatists in check. To some degree, unions do keep "fatcats" in check, but at great costs to the longer-term, aggregate economic development in the company/sector that is being unionized.
A more pithy way of putting it: collectivism replaces individualism when unionism flourishes, giving us the strengths--and profound weaknesses--of a collectivist construct. There's still no free lunch in economics, and collectively floundering is possible, as in the case of American auto and airline sectors.
March 6, 2009 at 7:04 am
groffg (3/6/2009)
2 weeks is the "standard" for new hires, but employees who have been w/ the company longer will likely have much more. Ditto for "special" employees who have in-demand skills who may have negotiated more vacation time.My research into the benefit/detriment of unions is generalized as follows:
Unions are a "net good" for undeveloped or, in many cases, emerging (developing) economies. Unions are "bad" for economies that are developed, like those of the US, western Europe, etc.
So, I don't favor unions in light of the fact that I live in the United States. If I lived in Bolivia, I might find unions an attractive option.
First-world romanticism of unions is due to the perception that "fatcats" are in charge and wield power unjustly and that unions would keep evil corporatists in check. To some degree, unions do keep "fatcats" in check, but at great costs to the longer-term, aggregate economic development in the company/sector that is being unionized.
A more pithy way of putting it: collectivism replaces individualism when unionism flourishes, giving us the strengths--and profound weaknesses--of a collectivist construct. There's still no free lunch in economics, and collectively floundering is possible, as in the case of American auto and airline sectors.
TANSTAAFL!
Right there with you.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
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March 6, 2009 at 7:10 am
-Retraining
Typically budgeted for, but THIS year things are a little tight. Can attend locally, but traveling is verboten.
Ergo Chairs -
I have my wonderful wave keyboard. The standard chair is the Leap Chair from Steelcase.
extra vacation -
I've been here a while so we're up to 20 days, 11 holidays, 3 personal days.
Medical benefits -
We have standard coverage.
Telecommuting -
It's talked about, but only available for emergencies, etc. I'd love to get to the point of 3 consecutive days in the office, two days telecommuting.
Professional Advancement -
Certs are usually covered. College course work is covered 100% provided it meets degree and/or applies to your job, plus you get B- or better.
Overtime -
What's that?
Holidays - More holidays?
Nah, we'll always b!tch and moan that there aren't enough, but I don't feel that bad.
Retirement -
I was hired a year or two before they froze entry into the pension. So I'm in, but new hires aren't. Not sure what (if) it'll pay, but I'm optimistic.
Lastly, someone else mentioned disconnecting from work. Don't call me when I'm on vacation, etc. Things are better now, but I used to get calls all hours of the day, every day. For >14 months I was the only person getting the calls. Then they roped in 1 more person. We rotated, but I still got the occasional call even when I wasn't on call.
Now we have 3rd shift coverage, they handle most of the routine junk. I still occasionally get calls, but greatly reduced.
I take two vacations a year, one in May (for a LONG weekend), and two weeks in August. I travel to a relatively remote part of New Hampshire, cabin on a lake.. you get the picture. No phone, no Internet, no cell phone, no newspaper, 1 via poor quality TV station (no TV set there though), two radio stations.
But what it does have is: running water (no hot water though), indoor plumbing, fridge, propane stove, a separate shower house, a 30 second walk to the sandy beach on one of the cleanest lakes in North America, and equally rewarding, a quiet, beautiful view of the "mountains" (don't laugh Steve), and Serenity.
Honor Super Omnia-
Jason Miller
March 6, 2009 at 7:21 am
Standardization (of skills, tools, credentials) would be a result of unionizing. Interesting to think that it might become illegal, for instance, for a pubicly-traded company with more than 500 employees to give someone dbo rights to a database unless that person had credential xyz granted by the state.
March 6, 2009 at 7:30 am
I think I'd go for a set amount of company paid training every year with paid time off to take that training.
March 6, 2009 at 7:30 am
I agree with Grant - no good can come of unionizing. That being said, if I was offered the choice of any 3 benefits to be added, I'd pick comp time (or overtime), telecommuting, and additional vacation time, in that order.
A move to a true ROWE (results-oriented work environment) would completely address the first 2 of these. Pay people to be adults and get things done, not for the number of hours they are warming a chair. You have a happier workforce, and underperformers will eventually fall away, resulting in higher quality staff. Win/win.
My $.02, fwiw.
Tim Mitchell, Microsoft Data Platform MVP
Data Warehouse and ETL Consultant
TimMitchell.net | @Tim_Mitchell | Tyleris.com
ETL Best Practices
March 6, 2009 at 7:32 am
I definitely thought you were talking about UNION statements too...
I think that standardized training might be one of the few benefits.
I would be concerned about what might happen to people like me who are more developers than DBAs - would I be prevented from working directly with a SQL Server just because I'm a programmer? A DBA Union would have to be unlike any other union in existence because it would have to allow for its members to be innovative. Frankly for most current-day unions any innovation by individual members is frowned upon.
March 6, 2009 at 7:33 am
I think unions are great! Sometimes there are record sets you just can't join..:D JK
As a couple of peole have stated, the American auto industry is exhibit A as to why unions are a bad idea in this modern era. I think coal miners probably still need a union, but certainly not the software industry. If it came to that though, I get enough vacation time and my chair is fine. The medical industry in the US is so out of whack that health insurance would be a must. Telecommuting would be great, but I tend to get side tracked so I'd probably be more on task at the office. I don't think "guaranteed" professional advancement is right; because, I've had managers that have no business coding, and I've worked with people that have no business managing others. It just depends on where your talents lie. Overtime would be cool but that would depend on salary. A pension would be great, but probably not necessary. It's called living within your means and saving.
The thing I would most like from a union agreement is training. Having an up to date skill set is more valuable than anything else in the list. On the wishy side of things, I would love to do 4 10hr days in a week (making an exception for crunch time) and have 3 day weekends.
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