Try It

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Try It

Grant Fritchey

SSC Guru

Points: 398872
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March 14, 2015 at 11:07 am

#302075

Comments posted to this topic are about the item Try It
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004290 More actions · Answer 1

+ 1 Billion, Grant.

What's really disconcerting is when I see the same people posting the nearly identical questions. "Trying it" is one of the best ways to learn... and remember.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Wayne West SSC-Insane Points: 22586 More actions · Answer 2

To paraphrase Thomas Edison, I know 300 ways of how not to make a lightbulb.

Always play, especially when a new version of SQL Server comes out and has new features! You never know when one of these features might be exactly what you're looking for to resolve an issue.

BUT play on a test database or server -- you play on a production box and you might get your butt kicked out the door.

-----
[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]

vliet SSCommitted Points: 1998 More actions · Answer 3

Trying to solve problems with the knowledge at hand undoubtedly has some benefits. At least one person on your site will have hands-on experience with it because he or she tried and succeeded to solve it. It may even boost some other skills because you'll have to explore more of the available tools and sources than you need to in regular every day operations.

But beware of a serious drawback: Solutions might be suboptimal. That doesn't matter if they do not hamper the performance of your database, but then they might do so some day. Remember the work of those developers that did not know how to implement set-based modififications and solved their problems with row-based modifications and a cursor? Or how some smart guy run the profiler and created a lot of indexes on tables without knowing anything about their long-term impact? They solved the problem at hand by trying until they found a working solution. But it's you that will have to clean up the mess they left behind when th sh*t hits the fan.

Please try, try and try everything before you ask a question about it. But please do ask a question about it, to make sure your solution is not just working but also durable.

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004290 More actions · Answer 4

vliet (3/15/2015)
Trying to solve problems with the knowledge at hand undoubtedly has some benefits. At least one person on your site will have hands-on experience with it because he or she tried and succeeded to solve it. It may even boost some other skills because you'll have to explore more of the available tools and sources than you need to in regular every day operations.

My only warning there would be if the on-site expertise isn't actually in T-SQL. I've worked at many companies where people either gave up on a T-SQL solution or never even tried because they thought it would be "impossible" or "too difficult". The end result at many of those companies software written by many people that each used their favorite tool and they have left an unmaintainable "Tower of Babel" behind.

As an example, one place that I worked at received "CSV" files that were exported from Excel. They were quite complex and, as you would expect, had many vertical partitions of related data. The DTS package was composed of Perl, Active-X, VBS, and T-SQL. It took 45 minutes just to get a file ready for import never mind actually importing it but no one could fix it because no one on site knew Perl, Active-X, or VBS well enough to figure out where to even start to look for problems. Considering that the company had gone from loading a dozen or so files each day to loading hundreds of such files each day, it became a rather urgent problem. 😀

I rewrote it all using T-SQL and was importing/validating, etc, up to 8 files in less than 2 minutes (that was a decade ago on SQL Server 2000... would likely do much better now). The really cool part was, everyone understood how it was working because 1) everyone in the group had some good knowledge of T-SQL, 2) my code was properly commented, and 3) I gave them some lessons during "Lunch'n'Learns".

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Stuart Davies SSCoach Points: 19505 More actions · Answer 5

I think the junior in my area is getting more than a little fed up with my three stock answers to their questions. Why? How do you know? and Have you tried?

They think I'm being picky - I'm trying to get them to think

-------------------------------Posting Data Etiquette - Jeff Moden [/url]Smart way to ask a question
There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand (the world). There is no such thing as a dumb question. ― Carl Sagan
I would never join a club that would allow me as a member - Groucho Marx

Gary Varga SSC Guru Points: 82166 More actions · Answer 6

In my experience when a question is asked by someone who has made an attempt most people are more willing to help. This goes across the board, not just SQL Server nor even just technology. Also learning is improved with experimentation. If someone tells you what to do and you do it then you will also forget it.

Personally, when people post on a forum something "I want to do X so how do I do it experts?" then I am not as helpful as when someone posts "I want to do X so I did Y so what do you think anyone?".

The second situation is a request for guidance. The first is someone wanting someone else to do their job for them.

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!

g.britton SSChampion Points: 13863 More actions · Answer 7

What I especially <sarcasm>love</sarcasm> is students that post homework questions without making any attempt to solve the problem or even, apparently, work on it at all.

Gerald Britton, Pluralsight courses

PHYData DBA SSCertifiable Points: 7541 More actions · Answer 8

Grant - I love this article and you are spot on correct.

However I have never read anything that made me think of Star Wars II so much.

You know the quote: "Do or Do Not. There is no try."

Maybe you were afraid to say "Just Do It" that much?

Lowell SSC Guru Points: 323518 More actions · Answer 9

g.britton (3/16/2015)
What I especially <sarcasm>love</sarcasm> is students that post homework questions without making any attempt to solve the problem or even, apparently, work on it at all.

so true! i wonder how many classes I've inadvertently received a passing grade for, over the years, doing peoples home work for them....

Lowell

--help us help you! If you post a question, make sure you include a CREATE TABLE... statement and INSERT INTO... statement into that table to give the volunteers here representative data. with your description of the problem, we can provide a tested, verifiable solution to your question! asking the question the right way gets you a tested answer the fastest way possible!

Grant Fritchey SSC Guru Points: 398872 More actions · Answer 10

PHYData DBA (3/16/2015)
Grant - I love this article and you are spot on correct.
However I have never read anything that made me think of Star Wars II so much.
You know the quote: "Do or Do Not. There is no try."
Maybe you were afraid to say "Just Do It" that much?

Ha! I'm pretty much the opposite of Yoda. So, yeah, let's try it.

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt

Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning