November 7, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Ken McKelvey (11/6/2009)
designing applications and databases is an art which requires experience
Heh... would someone please tell that to the folks that I've worked for? 😀 The term "GUI Driven" has become all too familiar a term. 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 7, 2009 at 9:42 pm
clive-421796 (11/6/2009)
Hi Silverfox, here's a question. I have 5yrs + SQLDBA experience, of that 1 yrs SQL Reporting + SSIS experience. I want to add some C# development skills. Which route do you recommend (how do I go about learning C# quickly - dont want to spend years achieving my goal). I am not lazy, so I dont mind coming from work and spending 3-4 hrs a day studying C# (But I dont want to spend months learning C# nice to know theory stuff). I want to get coding - hopefully in 3 mths write some really good programs, unfortunately the internet has so much fluff and very little 'real' hands-on practical examples to learn C# code quickly.Can you and the rest of the guru / knowledgeable developers out there provide some assistance ?
I am sure there is plenty more SQL DBA's out there that want to ask the same question.
Thanks in advance.
I think Silverfox is talking about web development in the context of adding to finished applications like SharePoint, DNN, WebSphere, Drupal and Joomla these are sub set of web development which you can pick up quickly so easier than Oracle and SQL Server DBA. Then there is the web development where you have to create something similar to all of the above and it is very complicated and is work equal to both Oracle and SQL Server DBA. That said I have provided links to books and tutorials for C# and Asp.net in the threads below and no you will not be able to create an application in three months but you can create the Microsoft starter kit based applications.
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic621165-61-5.aspx
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic790883-61-1.aspx
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
November 7, 2009 at 10:25 pm
algebrakitty (11/6/2009)
clive-421796 (11/6/2009)
Hi Silverfox, here's a question. I have 5yrs + SQLDBA experience, of that 1 yrs SQL Reporting + SSIS experience. I want to add some C# development skills. Which route do you recommend (how do I go about learning C# quickly - dont want to spend years achieving my goal). I am not lazy, so I dont mind coming from work and spending 3-4 hrs a day studying C# (But I dont want to spend months learning C# nice to know theory stuff). I want to get coding - hopefully in 3 mths write some really good programs, unfortunately the internet has so much fluff and very little 'real' hands-on practical examples to learn C# code quickly.Can you and the rest of the guru / knowledgeable developers out there provide some assistance ?
I am sure there is plenty more SQL DBA's out there that want to ask the same question.
Thanks in advance.
I want to ask similar question, but I want to learn Java. Can anyone give me some advice or direction the fast way to master java? I have strong sql and C programming background.
It has been more than seven years since I studied for the Java exam but you need to download the current JDK from Sun's site then spend time with these two links for materials and practice tests some free but even the none free is also not expensive.
http://faq.javaranch.com/java/ScjpMockTests
http://www.nycjava.net/JSPWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=PracticeExams
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
November 8, 2009 at 3:59 am
To be honest, best way to learn is to get a reference book on the tool that you want to learn. Pick an application/task that you want to create and use user groups and internet research to achieve that task.
A basic application can be prototyped in a day, if your skills are up to it. as an example create a web page, web form that allows data input, validates the input and writes that to a database. expand on that very basic idea/concept and that is the beginning of your learning experience. you dont have to learn everything about a language/tool to create what you need.
As long as you understand the basic concepts of the tool, you can achieve a lot. dont be misled by people saying you cannot produce anything for months, with the right books and tutorials, you can be coding within hours, you will not have complete understanding but you will end up with something that you can keep coming back to as your understanding grows.
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November 8, 2009 at 4:03 am
clive-421796 (11/6/2009)
Hi Silverfox, here's a question. I have 5yrs + SQLDBA experience, of that 1 yrs SQL Reporting + SSIS experience. I want to add some C# development skills. Which route do you recommend (how do I go about learning C# quickly - dont want to spend years achieving my goal). I am not lazy, so I dont mind coming from work and spending 3-4 hrs a day studying C# (But I dont want to spend months learning C# nice to know theory stuff). I want to get coding - hopefully in 3 mths write some really good programs, unfortunately the internet has so much fluff and very little 'real' hands-on practical examples to learn C# code quickly.Can you and the rest of the guru / knowledgeable developers out there provide some assistance ?
I am sure there is plenty more SQL DBA's out there that want to ask the same question.
Thanks in advance.
Depends on how indepth you want your C# skills to be, if you want to be able to develop c# outside of using SQL, books will be your best resource, as you will need to learn it from the ground up. if you want to know c# to help with your sql role. then i would investigate all examples, tutorials that have been created in association with sql, as in CLR and .net integration.
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November 10, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Hi Silverfox. Thanks for your suggestions and also thanks to the other replies.
I want to learn another skill besides SQL, so C# seems a good choice.
I am NOT into learning C# (console code), want to learn Visual C#.
So my goal is to become a really good coder. The nice part of having SQL skills is that developers can never have enough SQL skills, its not a nice to have but a necessity since most applications talk to a database.
My experience from working in the IT field is that most employees are too scared to share their knowledge (think it might affect job security), so website forums like these are like an oasis in the desert. My question to those really good developers out there is: which route should I take to get to know C# quickly. Any suggestions on a worthwhile book to buy. From my experience most IT books contain 10% to 20% valueable info, the rest is fluff you dont require (waste of time), not to mention they contain very little practical examples, and if they do the examples are very far from real life situation, so you cannot apply it (kind of theory that's not practical), not to mention a lot of examples dont even work.
November 10, 2009 at 12:42 pm
The books published by WROX have been a primary source for my education in asp.net, vb.net , SQL Server Programming and SQL Server Management.
Some time ago I took a class in TSQL programming and the instructor used "SQL Server 2000 Programming" by Wrox for the class.
Wrox books usually have lots of examples and some come with cds or online downloads.
The back cover of many of the books have suggested books for more learing in the subject.
"When in danger or in doubt. Run in circles, scream and shout!" TANSTAAFL
"Robert A. Heinlein"
November 10, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I have recently read one of Murach's books on javascript and DOM scripting and really liked the format (left page text, right page code and bullet points).
I also have a blog post that lists a bunch of free resources for SQL Server & .NET. There are definitely others.
I really like the recommendation of user groups. Usually there are a couple of people at the user group that will be willing to help you out.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
November 10, 2009 at 4:46 pm
clive-421796 (11/10/2009)
Hi Silverfox. Thanks for your suggestions and also thanks to the other replies.I want to learn another skill besides SQL, so C# seems a good choice.
I am NOT into learning C# (console code), want to learn Visual C#.
So my goal is to become a really good coder. The nice part of having SQL skills is that developers can never have enough SQL skills, its not a nice to have but a necessity since most applications talk to a database.
My experience from working in the IT field is that most employees are too scared to share their knowledge (think it might affect job security), so website forums like these are like an oasis in the desert. My question to those really good developers out there is: which route should I take to get to know C# quickly. Any suggestions on a worthwhile book to buy. From my experience most IT books contain 10% to 20% valueable info, the rest is fluff you dont require (waste of time), not to mention they contain very little practical examples, and if they do the examples are very far from real life situation, so you cannot apply it (kind of theory that's not practical), not to mention a lot of examples dont even work.
I do Asp.net development as part of large teams from 10 to 100 I have provided books that will prepare you to be an Asp.net developer who uses C# as the language so the C# books covers just C# for imperative and declarative programming . In the Asp.net book you get samples that show the how and why of Asp.net in both VB and C#, and I cannot help you with an application you can prototype in a day because as a former Java developer I am trained to also raw Object model and the books I posted will not cover object modeling because that is a different subject.
The Asp.net UI changes very fast so you need to add UI development skills as needed because what you know in layout today is almost obsolete next year but that is less than five percent of an Asp.net application. You can use just the Asp.net book using C# samples but that limits what type of application you can take from idea to deployment.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
November 11, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Hi Gift, thanks for your help. Now I have another question.
I am not sure which direction to choose - Web/Windows C# development.
Can you assist me. I know Web development has gain more popularity than Windows over the past years, but I have no idea which one is the best for me.
I listed below some of the books I consider reading:
http://www.amazon.com/C-Depth-What-need-master/dp/1933988363
Title: C# in Depth (Paperback)
Author: Jon Skeet
http://www.amazon.com/C-3-0-COMPLETE-REFERENCE-E/dp/0071588418
Title: C# 3.0 THE COMPLETE REFERENCE 3/E (Paperback)
Author: Herbert Schildt
http://www.amazon.com/Visual-2008-How-Program-3rd/dp/013605322X/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Title: Visual C# 2008 How to Program (3rd Edition) (Paperback)
Author: Paul Deitel
http://www.amazon.com/ASP-NET-3-5-Unleashed-Stephen-Walther/dp/0672330113
Title: ASP.NET 3.5 Unleashed (Hardcover)
Author: Stephen Walther
Hardcover: 1920 pages
Publisher: Sams (January 7, 2008)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470195924/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk
Title: ASP.NET 3.5 For Dummies (For Dummies (Computer/Tech)) (Paperback)
Author: Ken Cox
November 11, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Clive,
That is your choice I do Asp.net where I learn the base and add while Winform changes very little but Microsoft have created WPF to replace Winform in the future. So buy Jon Skeet and Stephen Walther for Asp.net and if you have money add Herbert Schildt because he explains things those new to C# needs to know and he covered Reflection more than other writers. Those are the books you need and the three links below covers all you need to get started with Winform including all the base classes. Spend time in the last link there are links in it with all you need in clean layout. I can answer most Asp.net questions but I don't do Winform so these links takes you to forums for Winforms with experts including Microsoft internal developers. I would not buy the other books you posted those are the types you are talking about, Herbert will not give you good samples but he tells you so you can go to MSDN and create your own code.
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winforms/thread/77a66f05-804e-4d58-8214-0c32d8f43191
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winforms/thread/be7e72fe-e43a-498f-8f20-553acd31d24e
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
November 13, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Hi Gift, thanks again. I am still not sure which to choose (Web/Windows development).
I think I will play with both, see which I learn easier/quicker, plus which of the two I enjoy the most.
I went to a few bookstores, paged through a few developer books. Wish there were books available which could teach you programming/development from A-Z (kind of like the kind you get at varsity but instead of 80% theory rather 95% practical and 5% theory.
I sometimes get the idea that most programming/development book authors simply chuck a whole lot of technical jargon into a book with a glossy title, price it between $30 and $45.
The novice programmer/developer can end up with 10 books on his shelf, yet not have the faintest idea what C#/web or windows development is about (so you wasted $400, much like some training institutes, you pay plenty to go to a course where the instructor simply reads out of a manual - you could rather have purchased and read the book yourself).
Have not even started coding, but after viewing various developer books I am not as optimistic as before reading them.
Have been in IT industry for over 10 yrs but I never came across any manual/book that contains so much irrelevant info than software developer books. Maybe they should do the same with books as they do with music, even though a CD contains say 14 songs, you can purchase from the internet only those songs that are worthwhile, you dont need to purchase the other dull songs as well (i.e., you only pay for 50 pages out of the 500), or remove the irrelevant info and publish a 50 page book. Why pay $40 for a book that's worth $4.
Hope you're not laughing too much, but eh ? , I am tired of getting ripped off, things aint like they
used to be, everythings quality is 30 times less than 15 yrs ago, yet we are charged 300 times more, makes you think.
November 13, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Here are links to Jon Skeet and Stephen Walther's code you can look at it and some are usuable now but Stephen is now a Microsoft employee working in MVC so use his webform code add MVC later. When I changed to C# I bought a lot of books but I still use Herbert Schildt but his book comes without usable samples but you know what you need to know.
http://www.yoda.arachsys.com/csharp/
http://stephenwalther.com/blog/category/3.aspx?Show=All
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
December 8, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Here is Halane's reply in english:
It is more than seven years I studied review of Java, but you must download the JDK in progress on the Sun site and then spend time with these two links to materials and practical tests, some free, but same is free also not expensive.
Halane, I checked out a few liks on the following Java website, but I am interested in C#.
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/
So I am looking for C# study material.
December 8, 2009 at 5:45 pm
halane34 (12/8/2009)
Cela fait plus de sept ans que j'ai étudié à l'examen de Java, mais vous devez télécharger le JDK en cours à partir du site de Sun, puis passer du temps avec ces deux liens pour les matériaux et les tests pratiques, certains gratuits, mais même il n'en est libre aussi pas cher.
Well, that's pretty rude.
Translation...
"Well, that's pretty rude."
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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