February 11, 2014 at 9:36 am
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/10/2014)
...but the Darwinistic nature of capitalism sooner or later weeds out the bad ones.Oh, I wish I found that to be the case!!!
But it *is* the case, Gary.
That's the way the system works. Poorly-managed companies can't compete ad infinitum. True, bad managers can and do pop up even in well-managed firms, but they don't last.
Unfortunately, I have come across far too many cases of bad staff lasting a long time. I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest. Either that has been my misfortune or your good fortune. Either way, long may your good experiences continue. 🙂
I think it is a question of degree. I do believe that capitalism will take care of things, but there are two issues that effect that. First, nobody said how long it will take, and sometimes it takes a really, really long time. Second, our government has basically removed the majority of capitalism from our business environment, leaving us with the worst possible scenario. They regulate so much that companies are forced to follow regulations instead of making decisions that would lead to better economic conditions. They also regulate things that they have absolutely no business regulating whatsoever!
What I find funny is that the schools are teaching kids about the constitution, but telling lies about what the constitution means. My daughter asked me for help understanding something the other day, she wondered why the book said one thing when the constitution says another. If children can see it, why can't our government, or the large number of idiots that vote for the person who tells the best lies?
Dave
February 11, 2014 at 9:41 am
Jim P. (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
But it *is* the case, Gary.That's the way the system works. Poorly-managed companies can't compete ad infinitum. True, bad managers can and do pop up even in well-managed firms, but they don't last.
Carly Fiorina for example?
I think Fiorina was at HP for four or five years, which was a reasonable enough period of time for the board of that company to determine she was not performing to the degree expected.
She got a whacking good severance cheque - about $20 million, I think - which seemed an odd way to say 'thank you' for a less-than-stellar job; but that might be a separate topic for discussion. :w00t:
February 11, 2014 at 9:47 am
What I find funny is that the schools are teaching kids about the constitution, but telling lies about what the constitution means.
I suspect neither of us are constitutional scholars, Dave - but even those who are, can't always agree on 'what the Constitution means'. My carpool buddy and I - both of us software developers - have very different opinions about the Second Amendment.
And since I'm actually British, I'm not even convinced of the legitimacy of the American Revolution.
(Just kidding.)
February 11, 2014 at 10:18 am
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest.You must work for government.
😉
Nope. Freelance, so I see a lot.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
February 11, 2014 at 10:22 am
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest.You must work for government.
😉
Nope. Freelance, so I see a lot.
I'd imagine you do - I did when I was a consultant. So I'd also imagine you don't stay in any one venue for terribly long, which may not lend itself to observing changes in management over a longer period of time.
February 11, 2014 at 10:24 am
djackson 22568 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/10/2014)
...but the Darwinistic nature of capitalism sooner or later weeds out the bad ones.Oh, I wish I found that to be the case!!!
But it *is* the case, Gary.
That's the way the system works. Poorly-managed companies can't compete ad infinitum. True, bad managers can and do pop up even in well-managed firms, but they don't last.
Unfortunately, I have come across far too many cases of bad staff lasting a long time. I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest. Either that has been my misfortune or your good fortune. Either way, long may your good experiences continue. 🙂
I think it is a question of degree. I do believe that capitalism will take care of things, but there are two issues that effect that. First, nobody said how long it will take, and sometimes it takes a really, really long time.
...
If it doesn't happen before retirement then it doesn't happen. Also, it sounded to me like the suggestion was that capitalism will right it. I have found that whatever the system is here in the UK (a variant of capitalism but you guys have already eluded to the over regulation - a different debate) that it frequently doesn't happen. At least nowhere quick enough. In my opinion, taking decades does not count.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
February 11, 2014 at 10:26 am
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest.You must work for government.
😉
Nope. Freelance, so I see a lot.
I'd imagine you do - I did when I was a consultant. So I'd also imagine you don't stay in any one venue for terribly long, which may not lend itself to observing changes in management over a longer period of time.
No but I do see ineffectual staff who have been at the same place for decades where their long term colleagues say they have always been the same - you could do me for listening to gossip though 😉
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
February 11, 2014 at 10:30 am
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/10/2014)
...but the Darwinistic nature of capitalism sooner or later weeds out the bad ones.Oh, I wish I found that to be the case!!!
But it *is* the case, Gary.
That's the way the system works. Poorly-managed companies can't compete ad infinitum. True, bad managers can and do pop up even in well-managed firms, but they don't last.
Unfortunately, I have come across far too many cases of bad staff lasting a long time. I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest. Either that has been my misfortune or your good fortune. Either way, long may your good experiences continue. 🙂
The problem is not about companies competing ad infinitum, it's about companies with bad management being created faster than they can disappear.
February 11, 2014 at 10:30 am
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest.You must work for government.
😉
Nope. Freelance, so I see a lot.
I'd imagine you do - I did when I was a consultant. So I'd also imagine you don't stay in any one venue for terribly long, which may not lend itself to observing changes in management over a longer period of time.
No but I do see ineffectual staff who have been at the same place for decades where their long term colleagues say they have always been the same - you could do me for listening to gossip though 😉
Now, is that in the UK or the US, please? There are cultural and economic differences which might account for a bit of what you've overheard. ("I haven't dropped no eaves sir, honest. I was just cutting the grass under the window there, if you follow me.")
February 11, 2014 at 10:33 am
UK. Mainly England. Me old mucker!!!
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
February 11, 2014 at 10:39 am
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
What I find funny is that the schools are teaching kids about the constitution, but telling lies about what the constitution means.I suspect neither of us are constitutional scholars, Dave - but even those who are, can't always agree on 'what the Constitution means'. My carpool buddy and I - both of us software developers - have very different opinions about the Second Amendment.
The fact is that most people CHOOSE how to interpret it, but it clearly says we have the right to bear arms and that it should not be infringed. We could argue (or agree?) on that forever though.
What my daughter asked about was how the constitution an clearly lay out enumerated powers (18!) for the federal government, an clearly lay out how ALL OTHERS are for the states, yet we allow our government to regulate all kinds of things it doesn't have the power to regulate.
There is no debate about that. The constitution is clear, not a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo, anyone who wants to read it can.
The effect on capitalism is what brought this up though, and to that I stand by my opinion that government regulates too much, and every regulation takes us further from capitalism. So the poster who said capitalism works is IMO correct, while Gary is also correct that it doesn't always appear to work, which I believe is due to over regulation.
Dave
February 11, 2014 at 10:40 am
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
UK. Mainly England. Me old mucker!!!
Ah, well then. Things do work a bit differently back in Blighty than here in Yankland. Life may have changed since I was knocking about there, but I recall the job opportunities and pay levels were more constrained than in the US. And although I really couldn't say for certain, British labour laws are probably more stringent.
Such economic conditions might account for people - including ineffectual ones - staying on in their jobs more than what would be the norm in the US. (Perhaps I should say 'was' rather than 'would be', as the US economy took a huge tumble in 2008, and is only now showing what might be considered signs of a recovery.)
February 11, 2014 at 10:41 am
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
djackson 22568 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/10/2014)
...but the Darwinistic nature of capitalism sooner or later weeds out the bad ones.Oh, I wish I found that to be the case!!!
But it *is* the case, Gary.
That's the way the system works. Poorly-managed companies can't compete ad infinitum. True, bad managers can and do pop up even in well-managed firms, but they don't last.
Unfortunately, I have come across far too many cases of bad staff lasting a long time. I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest. Either that has been my misfortune or your good fortune. Either way, long may your good experiences continue. 🙂
I think it is a question of degree. I do believe that capitalism will take care of things, but there are two issues that effect that. First, nobody said how long it will take, and sometimes it takes a really, really long time.
...
If it doesn't happen before retirement then it doesn't happen. Also, it sounded to me like the suggestion was that capitalism will right it. I have found that whatever the system is here in the UK (a variant of capitalism but you guys have already eluded to the over regulation - a different debate) that it frequently doesn't happen. At least nowhere quick enough. In my opinion, taking decades does not count.
I agree with you there!
Dave
February 11, 2014 at 10:48 am
The fact is that most people CHOOSE how to interpret it, but it clearly says we have the right to bear arms and that it should not be infringed.
Does it? I recall a bit about linking that right to being a member of a state militia. I don't recall any right allowing the possession and use of guns in schools, movie theatres, fast food restaurants, or one's place of employment. Yet that is what happens, repeatedly and tragically.
... we allow our government to regulate all kinds of things it doesn't have the power to regulate.
Such as ... ?
Certainly I would rather have the federal government enforcing civil rights laws than, say, the State of Alabama (were I a resident of that state).
... government regulates too much, and every regulation takes us further from capitalism.
Sorry, I'm not willing to give up the minimum wage, worker safety and occupational hazard regs, or traffic signals. All things which 'government regulates'.
Anyway, this is all way off topic. Sorry for my digressions.
February 11, 2014 at 1:00 pm
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/11/2014)
Gary Varga (2/11/2014)
Craig-315134 (2/10/2014)
...but the Darwinistic nature of capitalism sooner or later weeds out the bad ones.Oh, I wish I found that to be the case!!!
But it *is* the case, Gary.
That's the way the system works. Poorly-managed companies can't compete ad infinitum. True, bad managers can and do pop up even in well-managed firms, but they don't last.
Unfortunately, I have come across far too many cases of bad staff lasting a long time. I have found "the system" to not be as efficient as you suggest. Either that has been my misfortune or your good fortune. Either way, long may your good experiences continue. 🙂
I think I'd have to agree with Gary. I have seen it that way far more than the other.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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