To Certify or Not To Certify

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To Certify or Not To Certify

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colin.Leversuch-Roberts SSC Guru Points: 52643 More actions · Answer 1

Mine comes down to interviewing certified and non certified dba's - I remember one who had a number of certifications in both o/s and sql - I asked how to configure extra memory ( sql 2000 ) e.g. I've just put 16gb ram in the server what do you do to get sql server to use it and then how do you check sql server is actually using the memory? I have no recollection of anyone ever being able to answer this question correctly. I was told by one mcdba that awe was an operating system.

[font="Comic Sans MS"]The GrumpyOldDBA[/font]
www.grumpyolddba.co.uk
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/

SuperDBA-207096 SSCrazy Eights Points: 8176 More actions · Answer 2

Brad McGehee posted a pretty good article about this topic:

http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/professional-certification-for-dbas/

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004311 More actions · Answer 3

Yep... same ol' stuff, too! Basically a summary of everything that everyone has spoken of so far except how lame some (supposedly) certified folks "real skills" actually are.

For example... I just saw some certified "professional" with both the Dev and DB certs along with a couple of other in his signature line actually recommend shrinking a database every weekend. The Certs did that person absolutely no good for real world work and would crash and burn in a simple technical interview. What that proves to me, yet again, is that anyone can study for and pass the certification test.

On second thought... maybe that person is lying... I've gotta go look them up and see if they're actually certified or not. Heh... this could be a lot of fun... might get the chance to fire off several porkchops on this one! 😛

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

SuperDBA-207096 SSCrazy Eights Points: 8176 More actions · Answer 4

Jeff,

Was it a test DB with space issues? Dunno why anyone would want do do that....

Mark

SuperDBA-207096 SSCrazy Eights Points: 8176 More actions · Answer 5

That's kinda scary... was a while ago I took those exams, but I know there were questions about AWE, /3gb and max server memory on the exams I took....

SuperDBA-207096 SSCrazy Eights Points: 8176 More actions · Answer 6

I have to wonder if the people you're seeing are the exceptions or the rule....

I know one certified person who I worked with that didn't have a clue, and about 10 who were pretty good.

With the one that was bad it was more of a common sense and communications issue.. she had little common sense and didn't communicate well with the rest of the group. She eventually was fired for not being able to get the job done.

Gail Shaw SSC Guru Points: 1004504 More actions · Answer 7

Mark Horninger (7/8/2008)
Jeff,
Was it a test DB with space issues? Dunno why anyone would want do do that....
Mark

I think it was a posting on these forums. Stick around here and you'll see worse...

Just to stir things a bit, what's the opinion of the general skill level in our industry (ignoring certified/not certified)?

Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability

We walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004311 More actions · Answer 8

GilaMonster (7/8/2008)
Just to stir things a bit, what's the opinion of the general skill level in our industry (ignoring certified/not certified)?

Based on what I've seen in real life at work...

5% Newbie

60% casual knowledge

10% good knowledge

5% DBA quality

5% Developer quality

5% Hybrid quality

10% Stupid or dangerous or both

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004311 More actions · Answer 9

GilaMonster (7/8/2008)
Mark Horninger (7/8/2008)
Jeff,
Was it a test DB with space issues? Dunno why anyone would want do do that....
Mark
I think it was a posting on these forums. Stick around here and you'll see worse...

Yep... it was... you know which one...

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004311 More actions · Answer 10

Mark Horninger (7/8/2008)
Jeff,
Was it a test DB with space issues? Dunno why anyone would want do do that....
Mark

The guy didn't even take the time to find out... but doesn't matter... shouldn't automatically shrink a test db, either... only if something went wrong like an accidental cross-join and TempDB blew out of proportion... best thing to do even then would be to bounce the services so TempDB rebuilds.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004311 More actions · Answer 11

Mark Horninger (7/8/2008)
I have to wonder if the people you're seeing are the exceptions or the rule....
I know one certified person who I worked with that didn't have a clue, and about 10 who were pretty good.
With the one that was bad it was more of a common sense and communications issue.. she had little common sense and didn't communicate well with the rest of the group. She eventually was fired for not being able to get the job done.

Out of the two people that I worked with that were certified, neither could hit the ground with their hat.

Out of the 16 people I've interviewed in the last 4 years, 2 where certified DBA's and if server knowledge were gasoline, they wouldn't have had enough to run a sugar-ant's mini-bike through a matchbox.

1 of the 16 I interviewed actually had a clue and I hired him. The other 13 were a mix of BS to Phd in CS or Mathematics... they should go get their college money back because the lights were on... just nobody home.

I've had the pleasure of working with a couple of GUI programmers that get it and wanted to learn everything they could about high performance, scalable SQL and I was happy to teach them.

I've also had the great DISpleasure of working with dozens of GUI and SQL "code monkeys" that I'll put into the "casual" category... they just don't get it... they just wanna get the project done and, although they cause no real harm, also cause the need for much tuning and rework later on.

So, am I meeting the exceptions? Not the way you think... I did meet and hire the one "exception"... the rest ranged from DILIGAF attitudes to down right dangerous.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Gail Shaw SSC Guru Points: 1004504 More actions · Answer 12

Jeff Moden (7/8/2008)
Based on what I've seen in real life at work...
5% Newbie
60% casual knowledge
10% good knowledge
5% DBA quality
5% Developer quality
5% Hybrid quality
10% Stupid or dangerous or both

I'd probably scale that down towards the newbie in my end of the world, but mostly fits what I've seen too.

The problem I have with the certs isn't the certs themselves. It's with the people who think that a few letters after their name automatically makes them an expert or able to do the job.

That's why I recommend the cert exams (and the studying required) for personal growth, but that requires a person who's willing to learn in the first place.

Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability

We walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004311 More actions · Answer 13

Now, that's something I can definitely agree with! 🙂

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736150 More actions · Answer 14

Here, here!

I know that I wouldn't want to go through one, but I think having a certain amount of apprenticeship in our business would be a good thing. Now if businesses would just allow it.

Michael Valentine Jones SSC Guru Points: 64818 More actions · Answer 15

I don’t pay any attention to certifications on resumes.

What I look for on a resume is relevant experience, and the ability to clearly explain exactly what they have been doing. Nothing gets a resume tossed in the “No” pile faster than misspellings, bad grammar, or the inability to clearly communicate.

If they can’t take the time to spell check a resume, I assume they won’t spend the time to check important code. If they can’t communicate clearly in writing, they will be a liability I can do without.

Having a good resume doesn’t get the job, but it might get an interview.