July 2, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item To Certify or Not To Certify
July 2, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Impressive adaptation and paraphrase skills sir!
I think certifications are a good thing. I don't think they're the only thing.
:{> Andy
Andy Leonard, Chief Data Engineer, Enterprise Data & Analytics
July 3, 2008 at 1:28 am
Certs can be a good thing, bcos they will force you to learn things that you normaly would never learn or you would never need that on you present job.
I'm having fun takining this exams bcos I want to learn something and I learned a lot. Don't get me wrong SSC is a gr8 place to gain knowledge too 🙂
The bad thing is if you are doing it for scoring a job.
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July 3, 2008 at 4:18 am
Tot certify or not to certify? Well, I started of working for the South African Railways because I was to lazy in school to put an effort in and perchance get a bursary and take my studies further because my parents wouldn't have been able to send me for further studies. I scraped through school and worked at first as a teller in a bank for a year and then off to the railways. In those days, if you could not get a job, you went to the railways. It's not everybody that gets second chances, I didn't. Today I am struggling to make ends meat because I thought (at the age of 40) a cvhange to the IT world would make me a lot of money. But alas! no. So to certify or not? I say YES!!!!!!!!! If you get a chance grab it with both hands!
:-PManie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. - Holy Bible
I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times. - Everett Mckinley Dirkson (Well, I am trying. - Manie Verster)
July 3, 2008 at 4:24 am
Andy Leonard (7/2/2008)
Impressive adaptation and paraphrase skills sir!I think certifications are a good thing. I don't think they're the only thing.
:{> Andy
Well put! I think most of the posts I've seen where people don't put value in them are from people who don't have them.
My 02c.... they are a good thing that show commitment to your craft. I've found that while studying for certs I've learned new things and new ways of doing things. I suppose you could get the same thing from just reading.
July 3, 2008 at 5:36 am
Well done!
IMHO, product specific certifications (which need continuing updates) are not a good investment. I limit myself (with the exception of Sun's Java) to certifications that are non vendor specific. On the other hand, my dusty old CDP has probably long ago expired. (But ask me anything about zone punches or core memory!)
July 3, 2008 at 5:43 am
Jim Russell (7/3/2008)
Well done!IMHO, product specific certifications (which need continuing updates) are not a good investment. I limit myself (with the exception of Sun's Java) to certifications that are non vendor specific. On the other hand, my dusty old CDP has probably long ago expired. (But ask me anything about zone punches or core memory!)
I would think though if you're a SQL server DBA, you'd want a vendor specific certification- MS-SQL?
July 3, 2008 at 5:50 am
Mark Horninger (7/3/2008)
Jim Russell (7/3/2008)
Well done!IMHO, product specific certifications (which need continuing updates) are not a good investment. I limit myself (with the exception of Sun's Java) to certifications that are non vendor specific. On the other hand, my dusty old CDP has probably long ago expired. (But ask me anything about zone punches or core memory!)
I would think though if you're a SQL server DBA, you'd want a vendor specific certification- MS-SQL?
That is where specialization rears its ugly head. I would like to think (perhaps naively) that a DBA that I hired would be comfortable moving between SQL Server, Oracle, SQL Lite, etc.) On the other hand, a lot of the low level tasks of a DBA are vendor specific, so you have a good point.
July 3, 2008 at 6:06 am
Practically speaking, certifications in networking appear to be pretty much required, but certifications in anything else are "icing on the cake". In fact, I've been places where certifications are viewed with suspicion.:ermm:
I agree with those who feel that the main value of certification is making you learn more than what you need to get through the day. If you want to be someone who is excellent at what they do rather than just another cog in the machine, you need to learn. And if you value learning, why not learn what the makers of your technology identify as important? Certifications get you there.
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July 3, 2008 at 6:10 am
I used to think it wasn't necesary, but within the past year I've started to think it would be a really good idea. I think that having the certification on a resume, along with years of experience sets you apart from others who don't have certification. There seems to be more people applying for fewer jobs, and I think you need to stay competitive, and this will help.
Still wavering on whether or not I want to study..I never did like school!
July 3, 2008 at 6:19 am
One option for those interested in studying, there's a Google group that Jeff Belina runs (although there hasn't been much activity for a while)
July 3, 2008 at 6:37 am
I used to work for a consulting company that was certificate crazy. They thought it impressed the customers to have all their employees dripping with certificates.
That company went belly up...
I've had certificates. Bleh. They are worthless, both to prove one's worth and to learn whatever subject the certificate covers. The only "certificate" that's worth a damn is a college degree--and even those are suspect until you've been in the business at least 5 years.
Having said that, let me be very clear. Keeping up to date in your chosen technology is very valuable. Of course the "flavor of the day" syndrome is particularly bad in our industry, but knowing your subject in depth, and being as broadly based as you can be is a good thing.
But certificates are not the way to achieve that. The real problem is that certificate test designers go for the minutiae. Stuff that you seldom if ever see in real life, but is easy to ask questions about.
Of course, it isn't just certificates that suffer from this. My girlfriend is a teacher and rains down hellfire and brimstone on the current trends of "teaching to the test". Unfortunately, that's what most certificate holders do: they learn the test, pass it, and promptly forget it.
How does that make the certificate valuable?
July 3, 2008 at 6:53 am
For me it was a no-brainer
I had just spent 16.5K for SetFocus, 3 months no income paying 2 rents - for another month of part-time studying as a break from job hunting, 3 tests at $125 a pop and 3 more trips to New Jersey it made sense to get certified - a SetFocus diploma was a nice piece of paper, period
being a certified .NET developer (MCAD) has helped me get at least 2 jobs
I have taken a number of temp jobs trying to build up experience and the depth of knowledge needed to pass certification is useful - I never know when one of those oddball properties UseMnemonic, anyone? become useful
July 3, 2008 at 7:09 am
roger.plowman (7/3/2008)
I used to work for a consulting company that was certificate crazy. They thought it impressed the customers to have all their employees dripping with certificates.That company went belly up...
I've had certificates. Bleh. They are worthless, both to prove one's worth and to learn whatever subject the certificate covers. The only "certificate" that's worth a damn is a college degree--and even those are suspect until you've been in the business at least 5 years.
Having said that, let me be very clear. Keeping up to date in your chosen technology is very valuable. Of course the "flavor of the day" syndrome is particularly bad in our industry, but knowing your subject in depth, and being as broadly based as you can be is a good thing.
But certificates are not the way to achieve that. The real problem is that certificate test designers go for the minutiae. Stuff that you seldom if ever see in real life, but is easy to ask questions about.
Of course, it isn't just certificates that suffer from this. My girlfriend is a teacher and rains down hellfire and brimstone on the current trends of "teaching to the test". Unfortunately, that's what most certificate holders do: they learn the test, pass it, and promptly forget it.
How does that make the certificate valuable?
Dunno, my experience has been different... I've found that when it comes to getting a gig, it sets you apart. That said, I think experience is important too.
As far as a degree goes, I guess it helps. Only place my Masters seemed to make a difference for me was when I was teaching for a university.... out in the consulting world experience seemed to make the biggest difference.
While there are some people who just learn what they need to pass, eventually they will be found out, and out of a job.
One thing I have noticed, Certfications don't hold the weight they used to; but they are still valuable. I'll continue to certify and keep 'em up to date, and learn some along the way.
Maybe it's more the approach you take to learning - I learn by doing and experimenting, rather than just reading a book... so it's helped me to keep current....
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