August 22, 2012 at 1:56 am
hisakimatama (8/20/2012)
Wow. I'm actually kind of amazed at the amount of vacation time present in this thread :-P. This is only my first programming job, and I'm quite thoroughly certain the working conditions aren't the same as actual business-class jobs, but the vacation situation here is... Grim, to put it one way.I get a grand total of four days off every year. However, my ability to actually use those days is rather limited. I've somehow managed to use two from this year so far, but I've still been expected to log in remotely and do some tasks for about an hour or so. The other two might not see any use at all this year; mind you, I'd really like to use them, and I could definitely use some time to recharge right about now, but I'm just not allowed to use them. I'm the only IT/programmer role at this business, and as such, if I take time off and a problem happens, the business is more or less toast until I get back. The owner doesn't want to take that risk, so I'm essentially chained to my desk.
I could go on about how I'm even called on to check into things on weekends and so forth, even if it's midnight on a Saturday and there's not really a problem, just the owner's paranoia kicking in, but that's best kept reserved :-). Still, I'm thoroughly stunned by the amount of vacation some others in this thread get... Someone mentioned something along the lines of 6 weeks' worth of vacation! That would take me 7.5 years to build up :Wow:
You need to get another job and fast.
August 22, 2012 at 2:03 am
Jasmine D. Adamson (8/21/2012)
call.copse (8/21/2012)
Raoul Bastendorff (8/20/2012)
skron (8/20/2012)
I actually ended up going back to work early after heart surgery because HR would not stop calling me to tell me that I did not have short term disability and I needed to go back to work.Reading something like that leaves me speechless. It certainly confirms my thinking that I will never work in the US as an employee, unless I am high enough in the command chain.
I don't think I needed to read that to be of that inclination - but it certainly helps! Reading between the lines of that and Jasmine's post before is it the case that you do not get paid for sick leave in the US as well as the general healthcare problems you would get at least if not wealthy? I expect to get paid if my children or wife is sick and I need to stay home for a day or two, with no warning. My company is still very profitable. My only interpretation can be that employees are just ground into the dirt in some areas, even in a generally cushy job like IT.
I would get paid for the sick time, but let's say you had two weeks of that (which is what I had at my last job when I left, and that's a lot more than average). If you were in the hospital for that entire two weeks, you would still be making your normal salary, but then it would stop and you'd start having to use vacation or other time off. You could continue to pull your normal salary for however long that lasted. BUT... you would have a huge bill from the hospital. It can be really expensive, even after insurance has paid, you could easily owe $20K or more for a long hospital stay. I've been paying off $20K in student loans for almost ten years... I would end up dying before I paid off a hospital bill that large. So, that's why we need some kind of NHS - people can not take that burden on their own, it just can't be done. Even for people who make good money like we do, it's ridiculous to have that kind of bill to pay - we can't do it.
I think you've just made the case for re-electing Obama, or more to the point, not electing Romney.
August 22, 2012 at 2:32 am
marlon.seton (8/22/2012)
Raoul Bastendorff (8/20/2012)
I switch my mobile phone off during those times.Such a simple thing to do. Why do people feel the need to be contactable all the time? Better yet, do as I do, and don't have a mobile in the first place.
Well, for work I have to keep it on for 2 weeks every 6 weeks as I am on a on-call rota. On holiday I switch it off but take it with me in case I have an accident or other emergency.
August 22, 2012 at 2:41 am
Jasmine D. Adamson (8/21/2012)
call.copse (8/21/2012)
Raoul Bastendorff (8/20/2012)
skron (8/20/2012)
I actually ended up going back to work early after heart surgery because HR would not stop calling me to tell me that I did not have short term disability and I needed to go back to work.Reading something like that leaves me speechless. It certainly confirms my thinking that I will never work in the US as an employee, unless I am high enough in the command chain.
I don't think I needed to read that to be of that inclination - but it certainly helps! Reading between the lines of that and Jasmine's post before is it the case that you do not get paid for sick leave in the US as well as the general healthcare problems you would get at least if not wealthy? I expect to get paid if my children or wife is sick and I need to stay home for a day or two, with no warning. My company is still very profitable. My only interpretation can be that employees are just ground into the dirt in some areas, even in a generally cushy job like IT.
I would get paid for the sick time, but let's say you had two weeks of that (which is what I had at my last job when I left, and that's a lot more than average). If you were in the hospital for that entire two weeks, you would still be making your normal salary, but then it would stop and you'd start having to use vacation or other time off. You could continue to pull your normal salary for however long that lasted. BUT... you would have a huge bill from the hospital. It can be really expensive, even after insurance has paid, you could easily owe $20K or more for a long hospital stay. I've been paying off $20K in student loans for almost ten years... I would end up dying before I paid off a hospital bill that large. So, that's why we need some kind of NHS - people can not take that burden on their own, it just can't be done. Even for people who make good money like we do, it's ridiculous to have that kind of bill to pay - we can't do it.
My wife was in hospital for around four months last year when the birth of our second did not go to plan. The bill for the surgery alone would have been well over 6 figures, maybe more, I really have no clue (about 30 staff, several senior consultants, 20 hours in theater etc etc) plus plenty of follow up treatment (still going on). I had MANY days where I just rang in and said 'Sorry, I can't make it today' - and it's not easy to look after a two year old in those circumstances. I did not use vacation for much of this (mainly for planned time out). I can only assume I would have been bankrupt if I lived stateside (although presumably many companies do maintain decent family values towards their staff). Anyhow I could certainly not be more grateful about not having to have a jot of concern for any medical bills. Cost to me (at least directly) - zilch. I guess I have paid my taxes for these purposes but it's worth every last penny when you have a nightmare like that.
August 22, 2012 at 7:08 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/20/2012)
Doctor Who 2 (8/20/2012)
I hear you, Steve, but WOW, this is hard to do. I have almost 200 hours of vacation, but trying to get the time is difficult. We're short handed. In my case, because I work in the public sector I make, well let's say noticably less than I could doing the same thing in the private sector. Because of that I've not been able to update our family vehicle to something we could trust to get us anywhere, for several years. For several years I've done stay-cations, out of necessity. After a while, though, that doesn't become relaxing, especially for my wife, so why bother taking any time off. I only take time off now when I'm just too burned out.I think you're missing out. Think outside the box and find ways to change the stay-cation around. Don't run the same routine as though it's a weekend.
As for not taking time off because you're busy? That's silly. I hate to say it, but if you're short handed, that means you're short handed. Not that you give up your leave.
Hmmm. "I hate to say it, but if you're short handed, that means you're short handed. Not that you give up your leave." I hadn't thought of it that way. Thanks, Steve.
Rod
August 22, 2012 at 7:25 am
Raoul Bastendorff (8/20/2012)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/20/2012)
Raoul Bastendorff (8/20/2012)
Ah Steve... You have not looked at any other European countries. You may find that some are even more generous. And some companies even add more to that.I haven't. What do you get?
In Luxembourg I have by law 25 days of paid holidays, plus 5 that my employer adds to it. To that I add the compensation days (If a legal holiday falls on a weekend I get, by law, a workday as compensation to be taken within 90 days). This of course, has nothing to do with sick leave which is separate (and paid). This also means that if I fall sick during a holiday I have to send a medical certificate to my employer and, again by law, the holiday days covered by the certificate get converted into paid sick leave. I do not lose the holiday days then. It is considered by justice that the holiday days are for relaxing and being sick is not relaxing.
So as said in a previous post, I plan my holidays well in advance and usually take the same periods every year. They are then as follows: 2 weeks (8 days holiday + 2 legal) at Easter, 1 week (4 days + 1 legal) in June, 3 weeks (14 days + 1 legal) in October/November, makes 26 days. The rest goes in long weekends.
I compensate on overtime, which on average makes also an additional day/month.
The government is currently working on a law to introduce a time saving account which will allow us to save some days of holiday or overtime into that account over years and then take an extended paid leave later (you can save as long as you stay with the same employer, then maybe retire earlier or take a sabbatical on full pay). The employer has to take an insurance for this so that it is not lost should the company go bankrupt.
Oh, WOW! So, ah, is your company hiring?
Rod
August 22, 2012 at 7:50 am
marlon.seton (8/22/2012)
paul.knibbs (8/20/2012)
Brandon Leach (8/20/2012)
I've fallen into this trap many times. I'd find myself logging in to check on things on days off, etc.I do that too, but it's usually just to strip out the unimportant e-mails so I don't have to wade through 300 of them when I get back to work!
Why waste your holiday dealing with work e-mails? How's this for a radical solution: delete them all when you get back to work. If anything you deleted isn't followed up, it couldn't have been important.
That depends upon your situation. Whenever I'm sick I also check my work emails, for the same reason that Brandon said, I don't want 300 emails waiting for me when I return to work. In my case I can't simply delete the whole lot, because there maybe important emails from our funding source. To delete those would be suicidal.
Rod
August 22, 2012 at 7:59 am
Doctor Who 2 (8/22/2012)
marlon.seton (8/22/2012)
paul.knibbs (8/20/2012)
Brandon Leach (8/20/2012)
I've fallen into this trap many times. I'd find myself logging in to check on things on days off, etc.I do that too, but it's usually just to strip out the unimportant e-mails so I don't have to wade through 300 of them when I get back to work!
Why waste your holiday dealing with work e-mails? How's this for a radical solution: delete them all when you get back to work. If anything you deleted isn't followed up, it couldn't have been important.
That depends upon your situation. Whenever I'm sick I also check my work emails, for the same reason that Brandon said, I don't want 300 emails waiting for me when I return to work. In my case I can't simply delete the whole lot, because there maybe important emails from our funding source. To delete those would be suicidal.
Should have put 'Joke' at the end, I see. Seriously, being sick is, I would suggest, different from being on holiday. Is it reasonable to do what you can from home whilst off sick (with the emphasis on 'can' - your first responsibility should be to get well so you shouldn't do anything to the detriment of that)? I would say yes.
August 28, 2012 at 6:45 am
A few years ago, our HR department asked me to put together a process for sending out reminders to people if they appeared to be falling significantly behind in taking their holidays. It was worded carefully to avoid any appearance of pressuring, but emails would be sent out at the 6, 9, 10 and 11 month points to people whose proportion of holiday entitlement still unbooked was greater than the proportion of holiday year still remaining. It has worked well, and encourages people to plan their time off well in advance. Very few people fail to take all the holiday they're entitled to and respecting holiday time is demonstrably now a part of company culture.
For my part, I certainly take all my holiday, and do my utmost to ensure my team does likewise. I've never seen productivity suffer from time taken off, but have frequently seen it benefit. I tend to find that the more you look after someone, the greater effort they put in to try to justify that consideration, and to me that seems a much better motivational technique than employing a sword of Damocles.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
August 28, 2012 at 9:07 am
Just read this after coming back off my Summer hols - two weeks of fun with the family. I am always astounded that someone does not use all their leave in a year. Family life to me is so important that I always make the most of it. I can also never understand why people access work emails while on Holiday - this is something I never do. I returned to 150 emails today (which may not be many to some). About 130 of these I was quickly able to delete - there would have been no advantage in doing this beforehand. The other 20 gave me a pile of work - there would have been no advantage in knowing about this before coming back from leave and a big potential downside in that it would have caused me stress. 😎
August 28, 2012 at 9:52 am
skanker (8/28/2012)
Just read this after coming back off my Summer hols - two weeks of fun with the family. I am always astounded that someone does not use all their leave in a year. Family life to me is so important that I always make the most of it. I can also never understand why people access work emails while on Holiday - this is something I never do. I returned to 150 emails today (which may not be many to some). About 130 of these I was quickly able to delete - there would have been no advantage in doing this beforehand. The other 20 gave me a pile of work - there would have been no advantage in knowing about this before coming back from leave and a big potential downside in that it would have caused me stress. 😎
Good for you. I'm trying to get mine used up. I've got a few days here and there over the next month and then I plan on a lot of skiing at the end of this year :w00t:
August 28, 2012 at 12:04 pm
And here I am trying not to use my PTO time this year to earn some extra cash, what isn't used by the end of the year is cashed out. of course, I need the extra cash at the moment as I am trying to build up some reserves for my daughters Sphomore year at college. We stressed out enough this year trying to get her into school for her Freshman year.
August 28, 2012 at 6:45 pm
Lynn Pettis (8/28/2012)
And here I am trying not to use my PTO time this year to earn some extra cash, what isn't used by the end of the year is cashed out. of course, I need the extra cash at the moment as I am trying to build up some reserves for my daughters Sphomore year at college. We stressed out enough this year trying to get her into school for her Freshman year.
That's what I try to do, too. Anything over 600 hours in sick leave I get paid for, so starting about July/August I stop taking sick leave (go to work even if I am sick) so that I can get that paid out.
Rod
August 30, 2012 at 1:11 pm
I consider my vacation benefit as on par with the other compensation I receive for my time, such as a paycheck. I ask myself (and my boss) if he thinks I would/should hand back a paycheck without cashing it. That usually ends any debate.
At he begining of the year I'll put all my vacation onto the calendar, randomly spread. If nothing happens to change it, I take it. else, I reschedule it to a week prior to or after the original week.
Yes, I check email, and weigh in on any critical items - but you just have to nowadays, don't you?
Cheers and luck
Mark
Just a cog in the wheel.
August 31, 2012 at 8:35 am
starunit (8/30/2012)
I consider my vacation benefit as on par with the other compensation I receive for my time, such as a paycheck. I ask myself (and my boss) if he thinks I would/should hand back a paycheck without cashing it. That usually ends any debate.
Excellent point.
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