May 11, 2012 at 12:03 pm
TravisDBA (5/11/2012)
Lynn Pettis (5/11/2012)
TravisDBA (5/11/2012)
If I didn't take dead time at work or my own time in the evenings (yes, I do that too), I wouldn't know what I know today.
When you are a high-priced database consultant, you don't have alot of dead time. At least that has been my experience in the past anyway.:-D
So if you are working 8:00 to 5:00 with one hour for lunch, you are spending exactly 8 hours doing nothing but work? I find that hard to believe.
When you are charging the client $75 an hour to fix an onsite production issue, yes, basically thats right, and its not always 8-5 either.:-D
I have done contract work and there always some dead time between working on things. Sometimes you have to wait for things to finish up, before going to the next step. Perfect time to do some reading.
May 11, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Its usually less about time, and more about "brain energy". Its easy to spend the time and energy researching a current problem or reading a quick article. But to sit down with a book or series and really learn something new - after an 8-12 hour day or even on your day off - is really challenging. Too often its easier to sit back and watch something mindless off the DVR... Its really important to get to conferences or PASS events or something to get energized. Its well worth the cost.
May 11, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Lynn,
If the client lets you do it, thats fine. Most I have known in the past don't like it too much.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
May 11, 2012 at 12:50 pm
And if they pay you $180US/hour you start feel guilty for taking a leak, especially if the boss suddenly thinks of that! Maybe that should be on my own dime?
I've a good boss, different from the above, and at a much, much lower rate :w00t:, who's glad I do what another poster does - read at least one ON-POINT article per day. With it being just him and me as the dev team, we have to become very resourceful. Failure to be inquisitive will result in production failures, or at least poorer quality designs and code than could have otherwise been implemented. Someone once said, "All leaders are learners" - good word!
SSC, among other sites, has contributed much - thanks to all concerned.
May 11, 2012 at 12:59 pm
SAinCA (5/11/2012)
And if they pay you $180US/hour you start feel guilty for taking a leak, especially if the boss suddenly thinks of that! Maybe that should be on my own dime?
If they are paying anyone that much, then forget about taking a leak, you better be crapping gold bars. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
May 11, 2012 at 1:08 pm
TravisDBA (5/11/2012)
SAinCA (5/11/2012)
And if they pay you $180US/hour you start feel guilty for taking a leak, especially if the boss suddenly thinks of that! Maybe that should be on my own dime?If they are paying anyone that much, then forget about taking a leak, you better be crapping gold bars. 😀
Over a decade ago on a rare technology - great gig while it lasted and we did manage to make a profit for the client. Back to reality these days, sadly, but on the upside, one has a full time job that is enjoyable in a technology that isn't going away any time soon - MUCH to be thankful for.
Appreciate the humor, Travis.
May 11, 2012 at 1:15 pm
I agree with that absolutely. So many people I know are out of work right now.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
May 11, 2012 at 1:19 pm
Megistal (5/11/2012)
Easy question, none (no hour per whatever period) are officially allowed.You are granted to read something if it's directly related to the work being done right now (not tomorrow otherwise you won't work on what's urgent now).
Training is an obscure area.
You can request a book on the company budget but that is as far as you can go.
Either someone new comes in and bring new ideas so other can learn something (if they want to, some are totally against new ideas, some are reluctant to changes, most follows the boat, some learns)
Either you do it on your own time at home
I hear you, Megistal, that's my situation as well. For me it's no training is allowed and nothing will be paid for. Just like you the only thing I can read is what I need to read to fix the problem I'm facing that moment. And no money will spent on books or manuals. It didn't always used to be like this, but it is now, and it makes for some very frustrating working conditions. If we could only just get some training, then we could get our job done faster, but they don't want to do that. We've spent weeks trying to get some things done, due to the lack of knowledge on our part. Often it's just trying to learn enough so that you'll know how to ask the right question. However, I should mention that it hasn't always been this way here. In the past (many years ago) we were allowed an afternoon each week to do research, train, do something different to learn something new. Today our situation is effected by the fact that we've lost half our staff from just a year ago. And the budget is so tight that it can't even scream anymore.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
May 11, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Back when I worked full time I asked my boss if I could spend 30 min a day researching, reading, etc. His immediate reply: "Will that be enough time?" He considered training and reading and research time an investment in his staff and he supported anyone who wanted to improve themselves.
Now that I'm a consultant (billing by the hour) I put aside time outside of paying work to keep up to date. It's necessary. Fall behind and I'm less likely to get the work or be able to do it if I do get it.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 11, 2012 at 1:42 pm
spivey (5/11/2012)
Its usually less about time, and more about "brain energy". Its easy to spend the time and energy researching a current problem or reading a quick article. But to sit down with a book or series and really learn something new - after an 8-12 hour day or even on your day off - is really challenging. Too often its easier to sit back and watch something mindless off the DVR... Its really important to get to conferences or PASS events or something to get energized. Its well worth the cost.
Get to conferences? HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Sorry to laugh so much, for at least for some of us, that isn't ever going to happen again. I would love to go to TechNet, or PASS, but it just isn't even a dream in our current fiscal situation. And I suspect that with my current management, even if our financial situation were better, they wouldn't be too open to conferences, because IT and developer conferences "are so expensive". They'll send other people in the organization to conferences, but truthfully they are significantly cheaper. Now, I don't begrudge the fact that technical conferences cost what they do; what we do in IT and development is highly specialized and requires a great deal of knowledge, resources, skills, methodologies, etc. As well as it effects a lot of other things, like the course of business, profit/loss, market share, etc. And those in my organization who can go to conferences don't have that kind of impact.
I just had a thought. There are probably other people like myself, that's part of SSC, who cannot attend any conference, go to any SQL Saturdays, etc, because of budgetary considerations and (at least in my case) there just aren't places around me that do SQL Saturdays. (And trust me, I don't want to head up the SQL Saturday, because I want to LEARN and not administer one.) Anyway, here's my new thought. I'm on LinkedIn, and have joined a group there called LIDNUG. Periodically they'll have online chats, or I guess you could call them presentations, where they'll often have a guest to discuss things. For example, they've had Scott Guthrie talk a few times. Most of the time the speaker will be discussing some topic, or as in Scott's case he'll take questions from everyone else in the chat and answer them. These last about an hour to an hour and a half. For someone like me, who can't go to any more conferences, this is a primary way of my getting information. Often I'll hear a term which I can at least look up later, and I may never had had a chance to hear that term otherwise. I don't see these things hurting TechEd, PASS, or anything like that, because it can't duplicate what you get at conferences. But I'll tell you what; when you can't attend conferences, these short online chats provide a little for people like me who can no longer partake in. I think that SQL Server Central should consider doing something like this for IT pros, or DevOps (like myself) who live and work in the backwaters of the US.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
May 11, 2012 at 1:47 pm
We had a lead developer who was great at proposing new ideas and could sell his concepts to just about anyone. So he would sell a website feature or reporting solution or whatever to our boss and other senior managers and get them worked up over it and then put training into the project timeline. Some items were a hard sell and he would say, well it will save users x number of hours and save x dollars, but we have to have training to accomplish it. We proved the worth of the training enough times that we actually have a training budget now. Granted we are too busy to really use it. But it is there and we have at least been able to get MSDN licenses and books and I have been able to train at work for at least 4 hours a week, no questions asked for years. Classroom training is still questioned but only because it means being out of the office solidly for days. We've still been able to pass that through most of the time though barring task deadlines.
Now, I have worked as a consultant as well and that was a completely different experience where training was on your own time unless it was looking up something quickly on BOL or the web to fix an immediate issue. I think the training mindset often depends on what your company does. If your company is a vendor and they have to be able to bill so many hours back to the client then they won't be too keen on eating that training time. However, when your work is internal to your company and your company sells a product or service, it is usually deemed more necessary and a little easier to get approved. As good as consulting money can be, I like the stability of a regular job working on long term projects as well as quick fixes and being part of a company instead of just a hired gun.
May 11, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Rod at work (5/11/2012)
I think that SQL Server Central should consider doing something like this for IT pros, or DevOps (like myself) who live and work in the backwaters of the US.
How about the dark regions of Africa? At least for you it's a local flight and local currency if you do attend PASS or similar. You don't want to know how expensive it is to get to PASS summt when you're flying international and spending a currency much stronger than yours.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 11, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Today our situation is effected by the fact that we've lost half our staff from just a year ago. And the budget is so tight that it can't even scream anymore.
Rod,
Brother, you are not alone by any means. The bottom line is the best bang for the buck, more so today than it ever was. That is the real world of today. I know few work places that tolerate reading on the job, even if it is work-related. If you do, you are a big target for a layoff.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
May 11, 2012 at 2:50 pm
I could realistically spend probably 5 hours a week outside of work on professional development. That's me saying I could spend an extra hour a day at work working on stuff (my stuff). And I probably should.
I spend some time each day perusing blogs and newsletters, but I don't count that as learning so much. I need to really apply what I see out there to what I'm working on for it to really stick, and therefore be able to confidently say I know something about it.
Blogging about something I learned is very, very valuable towards retaining that new knowledge, since it takes quite a bit of understanding to lay out something clearly for someone else to read and find value in, and not get slammed for an error. I have about five blog posts started, but I need a good hour at a time at least to work on them, putting 15 mins on it just doesn't get much done on them.
Outside of work I am spending considerable time these days learning about data mining, in preparation for a course I will be taking this summer on that topic. Usually Tuesday nights at the library til they close, at least, although things like the Minkowski distance formula kind of run through me after 8 hours of work. And there again, work in the field is what I need to really learn this stuff. So I've put together a sample data set, and am working in R on it when I get a chance. Got the lawn cut last night, so hopefully this weekend I'll be at the computer -- woo hoo!
May 13, 2012 at 10:09 am
I sometimes feel like all I'm doing is learning new things. And as soon as I do learn something, it's on to some other project and what I just learned is no use any more. Conferences, yes, when there's money in the budget and the trip isn't too expensive (anywhere in Europe, and a reasonable price for the conference), then I can go, no problem. Books also, except English ones are impossible to find in Prague and I don't like just ordering books without seeing them. Even then I've gotten burned a few times - bought a book that turned out to be junk. But mostly nobody monitors what I do - as long as things that are needed work when they're supposed to, I could be reading comic books and nobody would care.
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 33 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply