March 24, 2016 at 6:46 am
It's a point of concern. I'm on the tail end of my career. Nearly off of the rest of my fellow IT workers are middle aged, none are young and green.
March 24, 2016 at 7:35 am
The majority here are grey/greying. Last year we interviewed a number of younger people with a few years' post graduate (mainly Computer Science) experience and found most were quite poor failing to answer fairly basic technical questions in areas like 'C' and SQL after claiming a number of years experience. The position went to another grey person!
March 24, 2016 at 7:44 am
On a different tact I know that some younger people are discouraged from going into IT by its sheer ageism in many areas - seeing your father and his friends losing their IT jobs for no good reason doesn't make the industry look good. I struggled to change jobs in my forties and spent most of 2014 out of work. And I know to many others who have been restructured out of their companies in their 40s/50s. Other professionals are hitting their best years at an age when IT professionals are being axed! I did some research on one company where I feel I was purely rejected on age and the average age was 28!
March 24, 2016 at 8:32 am
mjh 45389 (3/24/2016)
On a different tact I know that some younger people are discouraged from going into IT by its sheer ageism in many areas - seeing your father and his friends losing their IT jobs for no good reason doesn't make the industry look good. I struggled to change jobs in my forties and spent most of 2014 out of work. And I know to many others who have been restructured out of their companies in their 40s/50s. Other professionals are hitting their best years at an age when IT professionals are being axed! I did some research on one company where I feel I was purely rejected on age and the average age was 28!
I saw this starting out in IT in the 90's at a Fortune 100 company and the largest employer in the state where they were 're-engineering' and laying off a lot of experienced IT staff who obviously were older. They are no longer a Fortune 100 company or the largest employer in the state. They should have started with axing management.
March 24, 2016 at 8:45 am
ccd3000 (3/24/2016)
mjh 45389 (3/24/2016)
On a different tact I know that some younger people are discouraged from going into IT by its sheer ageism in many areas - seeing your father and his friends losing their IT jobs for no good reason doesn't make the industry look good. I struggled to change jobs in my forties and spent most of 2014 out of work. And I know to many others who have been restructured out of their companies in their 40s/50s. Other professionals are hitting their best years at an age when IT professionals are being axed! I did some research on one company where I feel I was purely rejected on age and the average age was 28!I saw this starting out in IT in the 90's at a Fortune 100 company and the largest employer in the state where they were 're-engineering' and laying off a lot of experienced IT staff who obviously were older. They are no longer a Fortune 100 company or the largest employer in the state. They should have started with axing management.
The company I referred to is one was (is?) one of the Sunday Times Top 100 Employers. However this seems more to do with helping parents than employing older workers. I gave up the Sunday Times when it passed £2 and more was recycled than read!
March 24, 2016 at 9:34 am
mjh 45389 (3/24/2016)
On a different tact I know that some younger people are discouraged from going into IT by its sheer ageism
I'm in my early 50s, just getting back to working full-time in IT after separating from my husband. I have 2 big black "X"s already. I'm over 50 and I'm running on rusty skills.
Thankfully, I have a good friend who is throwing me some contract work, but I need to get back to receiving a regular pay check. That's a possibility here, however, I would have to move to the state I left 16 years ago, and I really don't like it there.
March 24, 2016 at 10:20 am
I do wonder sometimes whether something like Watson could be developed to produce a truly objective job applicant decider. I'm conscious that everyone is slightly biased when it comes to colleague selection.
I see a lot of jobs that I think either myself or my colleagues could easily do but because we haven't got experience in their particular industry or are the wrong age, chances are they wouldn't consider us. I do think intelligent individuals should be able to transfer between domains fairly easily especially if the core instruments are the same.
At my place everyone is obsessed with compliance. To my mind if you get good flexible systems with staff who know them well, compliance is easy. Few at my work in the management team seem to want to see schema diagrams for new systems for instance - I sometimes think that we should replace them all with 17 year olds. I had one lad who even said to me - I don't like your questions their too difficult.
Actually there's a bit of route on MGMT at our place - they haven't been delivering - surprise surprise.
cloudydatablog.net
March 24, 2016 at 11:19 am
There is a Terry Pratchett Quote where a character was complaining about juvenile delinquency before being skewered on some of the things they used to do when they were young. "Ah but that was just youthful high spirits"!
Another one was where Commander Vimes went back in time and had to look after his younger self. "Gods was I ever this green"!
I know that if I was starting out today I would be just the same as my youthful counterparts. They are a product of their environment. They haven't magically evolved to be brighter and faster or devolved either for that matter.
The older we are the better we were.
I think they are hampered by far higher expectations that the older generation puts on them and also their own expectations that Rome can indeed be built in a day.
I also notice that incidence of mental illness amongst the young is also on the increase. Whether it is better diagnosis or consistently greater stress levels I don't know.
March 24, 2016 at 11:24 am
I also notice that incidence of mental illness amongst the young is also on the increase. Whether it is better diagnosis or consistently greater stress levels I don't know.
It's stress. Despite all the technical innovations, their future is currently more complex, fragile, and bleaker than ours was 20 years ago. Interesting times...
March 24, 2016 at 11:28 am
I'm in my early 50s, just getting back to working full-time in IT after separating from my husband. I have 2 big black "X"s already. I'm over 50 and I'm running on rusty skills.
My wife will be 50 this year and has gone back to full time work. Her employer said that older people offer consistent performance, complain less, have fewer sick days and tend to be less shy when raising genuine concerns.
Back in the 90s people were extremely ageist. I think the people who were being ageist are older and wiser now. I think the Y2K thing taught a lot of people the value of people they previously regarded as dead wood. I know of a few cases where legacy systems (not necessarily Y2K) have broken and the people who knew how to fix them had been made redundant. Those people were asked back to fix the legacy system and either said "go forth and multiply oh son of Onan" or accepted an eye watering amount of money to implement the fix!
March 24, 2016 at 11:45 am
David.Poole (3/24/2016)
...I know that if I was starting out today I would be just the same as my youthful counterparts. They are a product of their environment. They haven't magically evolved to be brighter and faster or devolved either for that matter...
I like my younger self...not sure that I would employ the arrogant yet enthusiastic hard working chap though. 😉
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 24, 2016 at 12:33 pm
I had one lad who even said to me - I don't like your questions their too difficult.
I find that hilarious. I have learned that my current boss is intimidated by any question. So I wait and email it to her and only her. Then she gets to send out a group email with an answer like she thought of the issue or need for clarification all on her own. However her boss is in some meetings I have to attend that she does not. Bigger boss actually took me aside after a meeting and told me, "I have come to really appreciate your questions. They always bring up other sides we need to look at."
Good management doesn't mind hard questions that need thought and investigation. Lazy or scared/insecure management doesn't want hard questions. Often younger are less secure, not always.
March 24, 2016 at 1:50 pm
Dalkeith (3/24/2016)
I do wonder sometimes whether something like Watson could be developed to produce a truly objective job applicant decider. I'm conscious that everyone is slightly biased when it comes to colleague selection....
The problem with using analytical based approaches (exams, keyword searches, or even referrals) to make hiring decisions is that analytics is based on data, and data is often times wrong. Quiz style exams miss the point. Recruiters are hungry and will say anything to either side of a negotiation in order to close the deal. Candidates are dishonest or self dillusional about their skillsets or even what they're looking for in a career, and resumes are written by hacks who are masters when it comes to SEO (search engine optimization) but don't know squat about any other technical topic. You can only truely determine a candidate's professional worthiness for a particular position by putting them in front of peers and managers and engaging them in a substantive, extended, and unscripted conversation that lasts at least an hour. Maybe it's not scientific and maybe it's subject to bias on occasional if the wrong folks drive the hiring decision, but if you're trying to fill a position with qualified people, then it's the only proven way.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 30, 2016 at 12:14 am
I'm a young guy who works in data. I walk into SQL Server specific meetups and talks and feel like there is little to no young professionals in the room that I can relate to on my level.
When I attend data science, analytical or other BI specific meetups and talks, I see a different crowd. I see a lot of young professionals who are analyst, BI professionals, visualization experts, data scientists or what I consider myself, data engineers.
I personally believe that a lot of businesses will move towards finding professionals that are hybrids. I think the gurus of specific vendors will still be needed, but the majority of the workforce is going to need to know more than just SQL Server or Oracle or even in the NoSQL realm, MongoDB.
I say that because developers are also moving in the same direction. My organization for example relies on me to both design the data warehouse and develop the API. They rely on me to know TSQL, Python and the be able to learn the next language to get us moving much like so many rely on the developer to speak 4 different languages.
So, while you may not see a lot of young professionals calling themselves DBA's. I do think there are a lot of young professionals who are doing similar things, but calling themselves something entirely different.
March 30, 2016 at 5:02 am
chrisn-585491 (3/24/2016)
I also notice that incidence of mental illness amongst the young is also on the increase. Whether it is better diagnosis or consistently greater stress levels I don't know.
It's stress. Despite all the technical innovations, their future is currently more complex, fragile, and bleaker than ours was 20 years ago. Interesting times...
The stress starts far too early with frequent testing as successive governments tinker with the education system and somehow expect all children to progress at the same rate in all areas. Also with the continuous pressure on testing, passing exams and league tables children are often not really taught to learn but purely to pass tests/exams. I had some truly inspirational teachers/lecturers but suspect their habit of going outside the core curriculum would not be tolerated these days. The instantaneous of communication and the internet add to the stress. Researching in the reference section of the local library in my teens was far less stressful and distracting than googling. Difficult times…
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