December 15, 2015 at 9:31 am
Yet Another DBA (12/15/2015)
Unfortunately too many companies see frequent job changes as detrimental. I cant remember which of the forums veterans it was who made the comment that a short job was anything less than 5 years. Ouch! Whereas to me 90% of the new skills are learnt in the first 12 months, maybe even less, depending on the individual.
I see this less and less. So many people have jobs for a couple years and move. I think changing < 1 year can be worrisome, but if you moved every 2-3 years, I think that's becoming more common than we might like, but we get used to it.
December 15, 2015 at 9:32 am
Gary Varga (12/15/2015)
I sometimes hear people say that the new features in the particular technology that they use is not appropriate for their area of work. I tend to think that there is often an opportunity missed where that new technology can be looked into and confirmed as being inappropriate.That way the individual keeps abreast of advances in their specialist technology and the company has done a reasonable assessment of the applicability of a given technology.
There's a lot of value here. This is in some sense, a failure. We tried tech x, but it didn't work/fit/have ROI. There's learning and value in that.
December 15, 2015 at 9:34 am
lshanahan (12/15/2015)
I go to work, play with cool toys and every so often something useful pops out. Can a job get any cooler than that?
Nope. Sounds like lots of fun.
December 15, 2015 at 10:09 am
The biggest problem I have is that sometimes it's not as easy to explore new areas without the expertise to guide you on the right course. For example, I primarily work with data warehousing and follow Kimballs best practices, OLAP and so forth. When it comes to highly-transaction systems, OLTP and so on, I'm kind of on my own. I can surely try to expand my knowledge into the transactional realm, but I fear I would only pick up back practices that do more harm than good.
So, most of my expansions in knowledge are to support my current environment. For example, picking up R and Python to support the analytical use of the data warehouse I built. While I may not become a data scientist tomorrow, understanding how my end users are using the data helps me better support them on the back-end.
I really do agree that it doesn't matter how many years of experience you have, it's how you use it. I'm trying to use my years of experience to do the best I can while expanding my knowledge to other areas that supports both the business and the clients.
So far, so good. I'm no master, but I have grown a lot.
December 15, 2015 at 10:17 am
Great advise, Steve! It reminds me of what Scott Hanselman has said, that some people at companies are there for 10 years, thinking they've got 10 years of experience, but really just 1 year of experience repeated 10 times. I'm in an environment now where doing anything new is generally not encouraged, but I'm not satisfied with that. I'm trying to teach myself new things by watching training videos on my laptop (when it works) during the commute. Besides WCF, TFS, MVVM, MVC and other developer technologies I've also spent time learning SSIS and Common Table Expressions. It's not likely I'll use SSIS at this job, I might use TCE, but at least I'm learning.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
December 15, 2015 at 10:23 am
Great thoughts! I'd also like to add that the SQL Server certifications are an excellent way to gain exposure to technologies that you may not have an opportunity/desire to dive into through your normal work processes. I've worked with developers who have had 10+ years experience and who were considered higher up on the food chain than me, but never attempted certification or skills enhancement and were unfamiliar with some of the newer technologies I would suggest.
For me, sitting down with a Microsoft exam prep book and pouring over the SQL Server "stuff" I've never used is one of the best things I can do to enhance my skills and marketability. It gives a nice overview and starting point for further Googling.
Thanks,
Jessica
What would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? -Robert H. Schuller
December 15, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (12/15/2015)
Yet Another DBA (12/15/2015)
Unfortunately too many companies see frequent job changes as detrimental. I cant remember which of the forums veterans it was who made the comment that a short job was anything less than 5 years. Ouch! Whereas to me 90% of the new skills are learnt in the first 12 months, maybe even less, depending on the individual.I see this less and less. So many people have jobs for a couple years and move. I think changing < 1 year can be worrisome, but if you moved every 2-3 years, I think that's becoming more common than we might like, but we get used to it.
Very, very true.
With new generation of managers arrive in every company, the old school thought of preferring people who stick with a previous company longer (like 6+ years) is not necessarily true any more.
December 15, 2015 at 2:24 pm
roger.plowman (12/15/2015)
It's all very well to say you should keep up with changing SQL Server stuff, but the reality for many of us is our companies either refuse to replace a working database (very smart, actually) or simply refuse to pay Microsoft's frankly exhorbitant SQL Server prices.And no, Developer Editions don't help since all you get to do is play with the pretty toys but never put them in production since your budget won't cover $15k+ replacement costs. Especially with this new "per core" pricing BS. That's just *cruel* :crying:
Our company will probably stick with Server 2008R2 until I retire. Sigh...
Not sure this should prevent you from learning and working with new stuff where you can. Perhaps there's something that fits for your company and is worthwhile, perhaps not. However investigation and understanding are things you gain, even if you never put anything into production.
I'm not sure I think MS is exorbitant. Oracle is. MS is expensive, but you do get a lot. Whether it's worth it is something else to discuss.
December 15, 2015 at 2:25 pm
jevitts (12/15/2015)
Great thoughts! I'd also like to add that the SQL Server certifications are an excellent way to gain exposure to technologies that you may not have an opportunity/desire to dive into through your normal work processes. I've worked with developers who have had 10+ years experience and who were considered higher up on the food chain than me, but never attempted certification or skills enhancement and were unfamiliar with some of the newer technologies I would suggest.For me, sitting down with a Microsoft exam prep book and pouring over the SQL Server "stuff" I've never used is one of the best things I can do to enhance my skills and marketability. It gives a nice overview and starting point for further Googling.
I think this is the way to approach certs. They guide learning and focus you on things you might never look at. The journey here is important. Not passing the test.
December 15, 2015 at 2:54 pm
jeffrey yao (12/15/2015)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (12/15/2015)
Yet Another DBA (12/15/2015)
Unfortunately too many companies see frequent job changes as detrimental. I cant remember which of the forums veterans it was who made the comment that a short job was anything less than 5 years. Ouch! Whereas to me 90% of the new skills are learnt in the first 12 months, maybe even less, depending on the individual.I see this less and less. So many people have jobs for a couple years and move. I think changing < 1 year can be worrisome, but if you moved every 2-3 years, I think that's becoming more common than we might like, but we get used to it.
Very, very true.
With new generation of managers arrive in every company, the old school thought of preferring people who stick with a previous company longer (like 6+ years) is not necessarily true any more.
Speaking of each new generation of managers, I don't think I'm wrong to assert that database administrators and developers tend to stick around twice as long as middle management and three times as long as executive management. I mean, in IT that's the practically the norm.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
December 16, 2015 at 8:23 am
Yet Another DBA (12/15/2015)
Unfortunately too many companies see frequent job changes as detrimental. I cant remember which of the forums veterans it was who made the comment that a short job was anything less than 5 years. Ouch! Whereas to me 90% of the new skills are learnt in the first 12 months, maybe even less, depending on the individual.
I meant to say this yesterday: I really, really agree with this. And relatedly, *some* (not all) people who stay in the same job for years and years are little more than expert beginners, living the same year of their working lives again and again and again. The prospect of that is what keeps me moving on.
December 16, 2015 at 11:05 am
Beatrix Kiddo (12/16/2015)
Yet Another DBA (12/15/2015)
Unfortunately too many companies see frequent job changes as detrimental. I cant remember which of the forums veterans it was who made the comment that a short job was anything less than 5 years. Ouch! Whereas to me 90% of the new skills are learnt in the first 12 months, maybe even less, depending on the individual.I meant to say this yesterday: I really, really agree with this. And relatedly, *some* (not all) people who stay in the same job for years and years are little more than expert beginners, living the same year of their working lives again and again and again. The prospect of that is what keeps me moving on.
Regarding those who are stuck in the rut of being an "expert beginner", I believe that it's the organization itself that enables that condition by over compartmentalization of staff and generally having low expectations. That's why folks tend to learn a lot in their first year on the job; not only are there new things to learn when given a new role, but the individual is out of their comfort zone and under increased scrutiny.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
December 16, 2015 at 7:26 pm
Wayne West (12/15/2015)
Beatrix Kiddo (12/15/2015)
... * the pay wasn't great and the politics were terrible :-D.I think if I had Beatrix Kiddo working in my office, I'd make EXTRA SURE that the politics and pay were to her liking! Did they let you carry a katana in the office? 😉
Heh... what do you mean by "let"? 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
December 17, 2015 at 1:24 am
It is the over-compartmentalisation that does it. I was a year into a job as a DBA and I had gotten a grip on what was to be done. I started reading up on the other features on SQL Server that we weren't using. I bought a book on Analysis Services (for SQL Server 2005!), learnt the concepts of datamarts, dimension- and fact-tables, cubes and basic MDX. I followed the chapters in the book, built a cube several ways, was introduced to data-mining, the algorithms within and DMX. I then went to my team-leader and asked to present this new info to the team and I was given out to. It's not in the company strategy, she said.
In short, the company is paying me to do certain things and management decides what these are. Data-warehouses are not one of them. When they want cubes, they will decide, not me. I got docked at my annual review that year for not having enough sense of the company (i.e. for being too selfish).
This is my take on why people learn lots in the first year and little afterwards. They do what they need to do their job and are not encouraged to do more.
December 17, 2015 at 7:02 am
Sean Redmond (12/17/2015)
It is the over-compartmentalisation that does it. I was a year into a job as a DBA and I had gotten a grip on what was to be done. I started reading up on the other features on SQL Server that we weren't using. I bought a book on Analysis Services (for SQL Server 2005!), learnt the concepts of datamarts, dimension- and fact-tables, cubes and basic MDX. I followed the chapters in the book, built a cube several ways, was introduced to data-mining, the algorithms within and DMX. I then went to my team-leader and asked to present this new info to the team and I was given out to. It's not in the company strategy, she said.In short, the company is paying me to do certain things and management decides what these are. Data-warehouses are not one of them. When they want cubes, they will decide, not me. I got docked at my annual review that year for not having enough sense of the company (i.e. for being too selfish).
This is my take on why people learn lots in the first year and little afterwards. They do what they need to do their job and are not encouraged to do more.
In a way, this is understandable. As a team-level developer you (the generic you) may not have a sufficiently high viewpoint to see the entire picture. And, of course, since you're being paid to *produce* what the company needs instead of *deciding* what they need, well...
I, on the other hand, have the opposite problem. As a 1 man IT department I do have to both decide and produce, and let me tell you, while that's cool and all it's *murder* on the schedule!
Our current ERB package is a 15 year-old in-house package that runs in Access 2003. It's been performance tweaked to death, but hit the wall about 3 years ago. Server 2012 R2 didn't help, either (the two don't like each other much).
So, I started rewriting that oh-so-finely-tuned-to-our-business (read 15 years of customizations and Access-specific performance tweaks) in SQL Server/VB.net, from the ground up. (While still being computer repairman, network person, sysadmin and now DBA for a few other packages).
To do this I had to learn SQL Server (2008 R2), VB.Net (2010), a huge array of tools (things like ModelRight, SSIS, etc), and on, and on.
I simply can't pile on optional extras I'm not going to need right now (data warehousing and all the specialization that goes with that). My plate is full with OLTP, thank you very much.
Oh, and add to the mix an extremely constrained budget, minimal educational resources (this site and Google and that's about it), and then suggest to me I should be learning new stuff I can't use day to day?
Yeah.
I just now figured out the utility of table-related functions and CROSS APPLY. 🙂 And that, only because I needed it for one particuar query.
Having said that, I try to keep an ear open for useful stuff, but "useful" means "something I can use to refactor that kluge" or "idea that will reduce my workload without requiring a month's time investment to learn".
Immortality and banishing the need to sleep would be *so* useful! 😀
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