July 10, 2008 at 7:57 am
Steve Jones - Editor (7/10/2008)
my alma mater, UVA - $102,000
U of Colorado - $57,000
U of Denver - $61,500
Those figures corroborate my own research.
Tim and richard.rabe:
According the Forbes, the average cost for an MBA is $100,000. Obviously the actual cost can run the gammut, and employer-reimbursements are possible, but I was trying to address the issue from the base because not everyone has access to perks--but everyone can pay full tuition.
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|Ted Pin >>
July 10, 2008 at 8:04 am
I'm a big fan of having a piece of paper to show that you belong in your field (certification or degree). Yes, you can certainly get along without it, but it sure helps when things get tight. Having said that, I think that Ted makes a great point in asking about the cost/benefit of your piece of paper. It's entirely possible to have too many, and they get expensive.
The normal way of working with pieces of paper is to have a strategy. Get your piece of paper in the field you want to go into. Likely you'll wind up where you aimed. If you wind up someplace else, that's fine. People do it all the time. My direct manager doesn't have a lick of official IT training, but he has an MBA. He's actually a good technician, but upper management wants someone with business knowlege running things in IT. For him that's fine. I hate management, so I've persued a degree in IT (master of software engineering).
Personal opinion: A Harvard degree is good if you want to teach at the best schools or if you are of the pedigree that you can expect to be placed directly into some high power firm on graduation. Only then is it worth the trouble and expense. I don't think you learn any more there than in cheaper and less prestigious schools.
___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
July 10, 2008 at 8:35 am
I don't know much about MBA's. But, Guy Kawasaki of Garage Technology Ventures, a venture capital company, increases his estimate of a company's value for every engineer it employs and descreases the value for every MBA it employs.
July 10, 2008 at 8:40 am
Folks, you chose your employer just as much as they chose you. And of all the benefits your employer compensates you with tuitiion assistiance is one of the few that can prepare you for a better job. At 17 I joined the Marines so they could pay for my bachelors. The oldest of 5 kids, with my family losing thier house to forclosure I earned my Associates degree in fits and starts all over the world. And it took me 13 years to do it. As a civilian my carerer and promotions stalled as soon as my "associates" was determined as my "terminal degree". A friend of mine termed it entering the handicap stall with your career. So I became a consultant started jumping jobs and doubled my income. Then I finished my Bachelorts at the University of Phoenix with the GI bill. I actually lost money after switching from a consultant to a full time position. But there are benefits here too. Better health care, I don't do marketing anymore and can concentrate on IT and the best thing of all.... I PICKED an employer who pays 100% of my tuition. There's an intangible benefit to getting more education and it's not all book learning. So you guessed it I'm now back in school for a Masters in Security and Business at a "name" brand school.
Here's something that I didn't see mentioned. When you are in school, no matter what age you are chronologically you are with a group of young people and have the time for creative thought outside of the work environment. Thinking outside the box isn't a problem for these folks.... they don't even know where the box is or what's in it! It's amazing the great ideas that flow when you're in school. Now that I'm at the ripe old age of 50 I'm considered a "non-traditional" student. So there's other perks involved. You already have the experience that gives you a background for the stuff the professor is throwing at you. And almost all of what you learn has a practical application back at the office. Maybe not in the specific department you work in but in the company. Your perspective helps you to find those practical applications. (Because you carry that box I was talking about around with you.)
If your employer doesn't pay for your tuition pick a new one. If your employer pays for it and you're not using it to better yourself and broaden your knowlege base, well that's part of your compensation that you're not realizing. If you can afford tuition and you're using that money to buy a new fishing boat you may be able to enjoy it more after you're replaced with someone more educated.
Granted going back to school isn't for everyone but in the IT industry you can be affected by outsourcing, a Hackett survey or a downsize. Education will help you get in the next door and the investment your employer makes in you makes you less likely to be the first out the door.
July 10, 2008 at 8:48 am
Of course, I neglected to mention that my Master's work will NOT involve an MBA, but will be an M.S. in Computer Information Systems. I figure if I'm going to pay the same amount for either, I'll go with the degree plan that more enjoyable and save the corporate-psycho-babble-laden management classes for the "Harvard Business School" automatons.
July 10, 2008 at 8:51 am
Here are my two cents.
Motivation:
I think most people who go for an MBA want it to help them with the starting salary, not necessarily with the subsequent yearly increases. In other words, 8% of a bigger starting salary is a bigger raise as well, and would continue to compound itself going forward. Ideally, I'm sure, they want both a big starting salary and a big yearly increase, but if they had to pick one I think they would pick the starting salary.
There are also bonuses and other perks as well that probably provide financial appeal to MBA candidates.
But as others seem to be saying, I agree that an MBA candidate (as in any field) should be motivated by something in addition to money in order to succeed. So anyone going for an MBA for the sole purpose of getting 8.2% raises instead on 2.8% raises will likely be disappointed in their work and may in fact not realize the salary gains they wanted when they add it all up 5 or 10 years later (if they even last in a job that long).
Value:
I can't say much about the value of an MBA in IT given that I don't have one and I don't want to presume to comment on details I don't know, except to say that it probably depends on the ability of an MBA to apply the relevant knowledge to the needs of a particular IT group. If the group needs budget help, then it needs someone to come in and do that well. If they need organizational or operations help, or strategic vision, then an MBA with one or all of those strengths will help. But I don't think the MBA is a silver bullet without applying the skills in context.
- webrunner
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A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html
July 10, 2008 at 8:59 am
In response to some of the dollar figures being thrown around, aren't Executive MBAs usually a lot more than a regular MBA? I think some of the $$ debate may be a result of comparing apples to oranges. Steve's numbers are for EMBAs while some of the others may be for regular MBA. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
July 10, 2008 at 8:59 am
Bob Lee (7/10/2008)
Folks, you chose your employer just as much as they chose you. And of all the benefits your employer compensates you with tuitiion assistiance is one of the few that can prepare you for a better job.
Good point.
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|Ted Pin >>
July 10, 2008 at 9:00 am
Schools do matter. Some schools are better than others for particular subjects. The key is to do the research before enrolling. I went to The Citadel for undergrad and for some degrees, it's not real strong. But for others, there were some real experts. I was surprising to learn how strong the professors in the English department were with respect to Early American Literature. Now granted, that wasn't my cup of tea, but it was something that was good to know. Political Science had former diplomats like Gardel Feurtado. In my major, physics, there were really strong and knowledgeable professors who cared about the students. They were still active in research and brought the students alongside (interferometry, astrophysics, molecular modeling, etc.). And since The Citadel didn't have a graduate level physics program, that meant as undergrads we were able to do things that would normally have been reserved for graduate students.
In a lot of cases there should be an advantage in the level of education at Harvard over a smaller school. Harvard has the ability to attract top notch professors and those who are leading experts in the field. For a student who is just looking to get the degree and get done, there's probably no discernable difference, as long as the second school has competent folks. But for those who are really looking to go in depth, it will make a difference. I am assuming, of course, that the teachers are interested in the students. There are plenty of horror cases where the department looks great because professors are involved in research and are writing papers. But when you get there you realize that's all they care about. And so as a student it's a big bunch of nothing.
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
July 10, 2008 at 9:02 am
cy (7/10/2008)
In response to some of the dollar figures being thrown around, aren't Executive MBAs usually a lot more than a regular MBA? I think some of the $$ debate may be a result of comparing apples to oranges. Steve's numbers are for EMBAs while some of the others may be for regular MBA. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Yes, EMBAs tend to be more. But the average cost of an MBA, any MBA, is still $100,000 (see Forbes.com)
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|Ted Pin >>
July 10, 2008 at 9:05 am
TonganJedi (7/10/2008)
Of course, I neglected to mention that my Master's work will NOT involve an MBA, but will be an M.S. in Computer Information Systems. I figure if I'm going to pay the same amount for either, I'll go with the degree plan that more enjoyable and save the corporate-psycho-babble-laden management classes for the "Harvard Business School" automatons.
You'll find use for either. I'm personally beginning to work on an M.Div. because I think eventually I'll switch to ministry full time. But to put it in perspective, most folks wouldn't think an M.Div. would be helpful outside of ministry. However, a few years ago I ran into an Air Force officer who had an M.Div. and spent time as a pastor but went back to get an M.D. He was in the Air Force as a doctor and had found the knowledge he had gained from his M.Div. had helped him relate to patients in all walks of life. He was in SC because he was pursuing further education with respect to public health.
The degree itself isn't what makes the difference, it's what the person strives to learn while obtaining the degree and how well the person applies that knowledge to the current job that does.
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
July 10, 2008 at 9:18 am
Steven Cameron (7/10/2008)
I don't know much about MBA's. But, Guy Kawasaki of Garage Technology Ventures, a venture capital company, increases his estimate of a company's value for every engineer it employs and descreases the value for every MBA it employs.
Is this the same Guy Kawasaki of Apple fame?? I met Guy once in Worcester MA at an Apple Users Group meeting. He seemed like a pretty cool guy. 🙂
In regards to MBA's, I would think that it might help you if you are in particular areas of IT such as Finance or if you would like to be an IT manager. I saw a degree at Kettering University that offered a IT MBA degree which would be cool again if you intend to enter IT management or data center management. There is a interesting variation of MBA at Baker College in Flint that combines Medical IT management in a Masters degree. This kinda interest me since I work at Medical insurance companies.
July 10, 2008 at 9:22 am
Good Morning,
I'd like to weigh in on this topic because I have an MBA and work both as a business intelligence analyst and freelance web developer. I agree with previous comments about obtaining the initial salary bump and realizing a smaller yearly increase thereafter.
In my opinion, the true value of holding an MBA and working in a technical position is the ability to fully understand and relate to the business challenges customers bring, as well as to develop solutions to meet such challenges. I see all too often situations where complex business problems are "band aided" by small technical fixes put in place by folks who don't fully realize the problem at hand.
I challenge myself each day to put myself in my clients' shoes. That is, I feel that I need to fully understand their challenges and their problems. Once I have this understanding, I can make recommendations related to technical solutions to their problems.
In a nutshell, I would recommend pursuing an MBA for someone in the IT field. It provides you with excellent insight and better ability to understand your customer's business processes and thereby develop more useful solutions for them.
Stepping down from soap box.... 🙂
July 10, 2008 at 9:26 am
William Strutts (7/10/2008)
Steven Cameron (7/10/2008)
I don't know much about MBA's. But, Guy Kawasaki of Garage Technology Ventures, a venture capital company, increases his estimate of a company's value for every engineer it employs and descreases the value for every MBA it employs.Is this the same Guy Kawasaki of Apple fame?? I met Guy once in Worcester MA at an Apple Users Group meeting. He seemed like a pretty cool guy. 🙂
It sounds like it is because I read Guy's quote about engineers vs. MBAs in his book The Art of the Start. (Highly recommended and is one of two of my go-to references for striking out on one's own.)
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|Ted Pin >>
July 10, 2008 at 9:36 am
Yes, EMBAs tend to be more. But the average cost of an MBA, any MBA, is still $100,000
100K is average but there is more as others have already stated. If you spread it over 4-5 years doing it as you work it costs far more.
But if I leave my job for two years and get the MBA then the cost is way out in the ozone. Two years pay at 100k per year plus the 100k puts the cost of the MBA at $300k+.
If after the MBA you work an additional 30 years you have to make 10k more per year to break even.
So is it worth it?
Since I have been in the field for over 35 years to me the answer is no, others will have to think about this a little.
Have a great day!
Miles...
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
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