August 8, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Starting Point
August 11, 2008 at 4:35 am
Steve,
I had to laugh when I listened to that podcast...
Years ago, I worked for a client who wanted to 're-skin' thier entire site. it was a site used internally, and they also wanted to make some performance fixes as well (I was working as an asp develop not a dba at the time - there was no dba).
Well, there was only enough $$$ for the re-skinning, no $$$ for functional performance improvements. the PM called all of the people who used the site in a meeting and told them not only did we change the look and feel, but we make 'significant performance improvements'.
Well, everyone gave us compliments on how much faster the site was over the next few months. Go figure... [tests I ran showed no change in performance]. Makes no sense.
August 11, 2008 at 5:25 am
Great editorial Steve!
I can't believe that someone that had used Vista would be fooled with something else.
This is precisely what happened, and why the Mojave Experiment is brilliant stroke. Otherwise intelligent people have been greatly affected by a successful (and funny!) marketing campaign.
I've seen this firsthand. A family member who is obviously intelligent and thoughtful was talking with about computers with another family member recently and asked "Andy's not using Vista, is he?"
The problem with overly-successful marketing campaigns is this: eventually the pendulum swings back. And folks don't like to be fooled a second time.
:{> Andy
Andy Leonard, Chief Data Engineer, Enterprise Data & Analytics
August 11, 2008 at 5:49 am
I've heard far too many negative comments about Vista from friends and family... most of which have never even used it... which just highlights how far it's gone. I also have Vista on my laptop, XP on my desktop, and I like a lot of things about it, but there are some glaring problems with it that I wish they'd fix. Mainly why does it take so long to unzip a file? I've had old DOS games (yay, nostalgia!) in a ZIP file (all files extracted were about 100K) and it took 15 minutes to unzip on Vista. That just doesn't make any sense. But more often than not, I am singing its praises.
Also, hearing that the 80,000 mile Prius battery thing is a myth, I have to ask. Since we'll be getting one in the next week or two, do you mean they're actually lasting longer than that? If so, yay! It wasn't a huge negative to me when we were looking at them to begin with, but I'm glad to hear it's also a big myth.
August 11, 2008 at 5:58 am
I noticed that they did not poll 200 people who own Vista Machines and have been using them for awhile. Maybe they should call that experiment "Initial Test Phase!". Nothing agile here this is forced entry with no oppertinuity for rebuttle.
See their thought process is [Since we control the market people will complain but will eventually swallow the pill.] This is a poor software release technique.
August 11, 2008 at 7:04 am
One overlooked principle of impressions is who you give the impression to and when. I'm one of the people who got stuck on the 80,000 mile limit to hybrid batteries, but it's because I read it in a 2006 Consumer Reports article (normally a pretty reliable source).
The problem with Vista was not that it caused problems for average users with properly powered machines from mainstream suppliers. The problems came for 1) people with older, underpowered (by today's standards) machines and 2) power users with advanced applications and add-ons. Windows draws from an incredibly large and diverse provider base, so it's hard for a lot of companies to keep up with drivers and other hooks into the operating system. We (my company) had a lot of trouble with more refined, specialty software from small companies. Hence, there was a lot of critism from "the experts" who write technical articles. They're often the power uses.
Future releases of Windows may have similiar perception problems. The average user won't see the difference because the technology is far past what they can understand (heck, I've got a masters in software engineering and I don't understand everything going on under the hood in a typical computer). There are lots of people who are happy being able to cut and paste text in a word processor, and that's been around for a long time now. The differences in new releases will be in things like the ability to handle processors with multiple cores (7 or 8 in the near future, dozens on the horizon). The question for the average man on the street will just be "does it work?" meaning, "Can I still cut and paste?" They may look to "the experts" for advice before buying, and the experts are measuring success on a different level.
___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
August 11, 2008 at 7:28 am
I think we need to consider what this actually proves, though -- if people get Vista with a new machine fast enough to handle it, with plenty of RAM, and are only using sound cards, video cards, printers, etc that are fully supported with Vista drivers, they'll probably like Vista.
I think the bad reputation doesn't come from THOSE people. The bad reputation comes from the family with a 3 year old PC (or a PC they bought last year that was marketed as "Vista Capable" but they don't understand that doesn't apply to the printer they got with it, or the video card their kid got as a castoff from a friend, and they can't actually run Aero).
let's be honest -- They built a straw man, tore it down, and are now saying "Look, everyone would love Vista if it weren't for the bad press!"
August 11, 2008 at 7:45 am
I've been using Vista since beta, and I guess I'm a serious minority, but I really like it.
The first machine I used it on was significantly more than "3 years old", and initially had a few driver problems, but they were resolved before the beta was over, except for one item (the video card), and that was resolved the week after Vista went live.
I like the improved security. I've tested the heck out of it, and it's pretty robust, if you set up the accounts in the recommended way and leave UAC turned on. Minor annoyance every now and again with "yes, I still want to run this program, again", but hitting a web site and having UAC pop up and tell me the web site is trying to install software makes it worth it to me.
I like the desktop search functionality. Very useful. I keep scripts for all my databases in an indexed folder. Since I have scripts for prior versions of objects, it comes in very handy.
My only real complaint is how long it takes to get to my desktop when I reboot. Since that's about once a month, it's not a big deal, but it does take its time about that.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 11, 2008 at 8:30 am
Hi guys,
I've been using Windows Vista Ultimate for 1 year, because I bought a new laptop powered by Vista, and for while it's everything ok. But I didn't upgrade my old laptop, it's powered by Win XP Pro and I don't have plans to upgrade it.
I have a suggestion for Microsoft and SQL Server marketing guys:
Create a package like Mojave.
The package name: ANCIENT
The package color: RED
A letter talking about the features and signed by Larry (a fake name too...lol).
I bet the opinion about SQL Server will be different among Oracle guys...don't you think?
---------------------
Alex Rosa
http://www.keep-learning.com/blog
August 11, 2008 at 8:42 am
Mark Horninger (8/11/2008)
Steve,Years ago, I worked for a client who wanted to 're-skin' thier entire site....
Well, there was only enough $$$ for the re-skinning, no $$$ for functional performance improvements. the PM called all of the people who used the site in a meeting and told them not only did we change the look and feel, but we make 'significant performance improvements'.
Well, everyone gave us compliments on how much faster the site was over the next few months. Go figure... [tests I ran showed no change in performance]. Makes no sense.
That's called the "Novelty Factor". 😀
August 11, 2008 at 8:49 am
So, a load of people with low expectations were pleasantly surprised by a canned demonstration (or was it just a video?) from a machine of unknown spec, that had been carefully selected by the vendor...
Wow! I bet they would have been freaked out by how fast Windows 3.1 would have run on the same machine...
August 11, 2008 at 9:29 am
This speaks to the community we write software and manage data for. They think they know and they think they are experts. They are able to do a lot of things that we have developed for them and they are by far better business experts then we.
However, they do not know it all and rely on the words of others and not on the experience they themselves have had. They state what they hear as if it were from God Himself, because they believe in the one who told them, without taking a look themselves.
What a great lesson for us to take to heart before we quote some expert on some issue without checking it out ourselves. It would be wiser to say "I have not looked into that" or "I do not know", rather then spouting off anothers opinion mindlessly.
Good Word...
Miles...
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
August 11, 2008 at 9:34 am
jeleda913 (8/11/2008)
Mark Horninger (8/11/2008)
Steve,Years ago, I worked for a client who wanted to 're-skin' thier entire site....
Well, there was only enough $$$ for the re-skinning, no $$$ for functional performance improvements. the PM called all of the people who used the site in a meeting and told them not only did we change the look and feel, but we make 'significant performance improvements'.
Well, everyone gave us compliments on how much faster the site was over the next few months. Go figure... [tests I ran showed no change in performance]. Makes no sense.
That's called the "Novelty Factor". 😀
I suppose. Sure made me mad at the time... now I can laugh about now though...
August 11, 2008 at 9:39 am
"If I could get drivers for the laptop, I'd go back to XP."
I do software development for some niche devices and there are enough glitches with these tools under Vista to make XP a much better develoment platform. That's the reason my new laptop is a Dell. For $99 more than the Vista version, it came with XP Pro loaded plus the Vista Business CD for (possible) future upgrade.
John
August 11, 2008 at 9:44 am
I tried, even tried to sweat-talk the Toshiba tech, offering some SWAG, but no XP drivers for a few things on the laptop. I suppose I could dig through the manufacturer's sites, but honestly it's not that bad. It's just slightly annoying.
The point of my editorial (not sure about the experiment) isn't the Vista is or isn't good, but that people have those perceptions, not knowing anything. Too many people don't take a look themselves. That's not necessarily bad, since I tend to take people's recommendations for things, but I do see the problem from Microsoft.
I'm sure many of you have had similar issues with your software or products. Someone bad mouth's it and you could lose lots of customers. Maybe just because that person didn't have a good experience.
I would like to see what the people were actually shown on the computers. That would be an important part in trying to see where Vista has gone wrong. If this is a marketing effort, good, but even better if they actually too the issues and used them to better develop the next version of Windows.
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