July 25, 2009 at 10:00 am
The connection, or maybe there isn't one, is that what type of rights does an individual deserve with their purchases. If you purchased a book from Amazon, and they can edit/remove it from your reader, is that a danger?
What if you built an application using a web service that transforms data using some built in task? Can Microsoft come remove your application from their "OS" if there is some legal issue with the task? What if they want to prevent lawsuits?
Should consumers that purchased somthing from Dish network have their DVRs disabled remotely, and lose their content, because of an issue with TiVo?
The danger to our individual rights is what concerns me. It is less murky when it's a legal order, but still, the easy enforcement of those judgments seem to be a problem to me. Or a potential problem. Every large convenience has a dark side as well.
July 27, 2009 at 3:39 am
There is an additional issue here, which I don't think has been touched on in this thread, which is that major printing houses can abuse this system. As I understand it, "1984" has now passed out of copyright here in the UK, and may therefore be legally published by anyone. The publisher that complained to Amazon may not actually hold a valid copyright anymore, in either jurisdiction, but Amazon is effectively acting as judge-and-jury on this, and are only ever going to rule one way.
July 27, 2009 at 7:56 am
I read 1 or 2 books a week, usually. Sometimes more. When I was a teen, I read one or two books a day pretty regularly. So, yeah, I think I read a bit more than is usual.
I don't read a lot of non-fiction books, but I do read thousands of words per week of non-fiction online. Encyclopedic stuff, technical stuff, political and historical, it's all over the place.
I don't watch TV, so I have a lot of time for reading and other activities.
On DR, I think Amazon should have told people what was going on, but I think they did what they had to on pulling the material back. I'm a firm believer in intellectual property and copyright. I don't pirate music or movies (or books).
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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July 27, 2009 at 8:13 am
GSquared (7/27/2009)
On DR, I think Amazon should have told people what was going on, but I think they did what they had to on pulling the material back. I'm a firm believer in intellectual property and copyright. I don't pirate music or movies (or books).
I don't believe the issue is in what Amazon did due to the circumstances, but the method they went about doing so. You're right that they should have sent an email (or notice through the Kindle) that on such-and-such date that they books were going to be removed and their money refunded BEFORE doing such an act. To do so without proper notification is rather heavy-handed and a violation of personal rights.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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July 27, 2009 at 8:15 am
Aaron N. Cutshall (7/27/2009)
GSquared (7/27/2009)
On DR, I think Amazon should have told people what was going on, but I think they did what they had to on pulling the material back. I'm a firm believer in intellectual property and copyright. I don't pirate music or movies (or books).I don't believe the issue is in what Amazon did due to the circumstances, but the method they went about doing so. You're right that they should have sent an email (or notice through the Kindle) that on such-and-such date that they books were going to be removed and their money refunded BEFORE doing such an act. To do so without proper notification is rather heavy-handed and a violation of personal rights.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Totally agree with you. They took the necessary action, but did so in the wrong way.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 27, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (7/25/2009)
Should consumers that purchased somthing from Dish network have their DVRs disabled remotely, and lose their content, because of an issue with TiVo?
Hmm, I see your point, though I thought the DVRs were only rented from Dish, not bought outright (I would certainly not purchase a DVR from a service provider). It seems to me that the issue with Dish/TiVo is that Dish knowingly stole something from TiVo and even after being ordered by the court to remove the offending DVRs from users, chose instead to continue stealing TiVo's intellectual property. Much like DirecTV has done, Dish could have licensed the TiVo technology and ended the issue, without harming their customers. They chose not to do so, which is unfortunate for their customers, but not really TiVo's concern. As the fines on this one mount I would not be surprised to shortly see TiVo owning Dish and the problem being corrected in that manner.
July 27, 2009 at 3:03 pm
mike brockington (7/27/2009)
There is an additional issue here, which I don't think has been touched on in this thread, which is that major printing houses can abuse this system. As I understand it, "1984" has now passed out of copyright here in the UK, and may therefore be legally published by anyone. The publisher that complained to Amazon may not actually hold a valid copyright anymore, in either jurisdiction, but Amazon is effectively acting as judge-and-jury on this, and are only ever going to rule one way.
I've seen this issue a lot. You find that publishers hold a lot more cards than they were intended to. By maintaining full control of the manuscripts even well after the copyright expires, the maintain control over the specific material much longer than was ever intended.
For example - the Berlin Philharmonic recordings with H. von Karajan should all be hitting that limit this year (20 years is the limit as I recall), but just try to find copies after that deadline passes. What's more - I have yet to find ANY reader/player that's smart enough to know that something like that is not supposed to have a licensing restriction.
One final cold shower I've had recently is when I was taking classes. Many university courses have switched to using some form of e-book (ocmpiled form articles by various folks), but none of the professors/curricula can agree on what service to use, so you end up with a dozen different e-book providers, each with different access restrictions during and after the class, which is both disturbing and disappointing. It really should be possible to hold onto the documents you paid for outside of the period of the class, and yet - a full 1/3 of the calsses I am in essentially force you to "rent" the material for the 10 weeks you're in the class, only to lose your access to the class materials within a month after it is done.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
July 27, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Matt Miller (7/27/2009)
mike brockington (7/27/2009)
There is an additional issue here, which I don't think has been touched on in this thread, which is that major printing houses can abuse this system. As I understand it, "1984" has now passed out of copyright here in the UK, and may therefore be legally published by anyone. The publisher that complained to Amazon may not actually hold a valid copyright anymore, in either jurisdiction, but Amazon is effectively acting as judge-and-jury on this, and are only ever going to rule one way.I've seen this issue a lot. You find that publishers hold a lot more cards than they were intended to. By maintaining full control of the manuscripts even well after the copyright expires, the maintain control over the specific material much longer than was ever intended.
Yep - I googled it earlier to work out if Nineteen Eighty-Four was still in copyright and WikiPedia states that in the US it doesn't come out of copyright until 2044 and Europe in 2020. Canada, Australia and Russia its as free as a bird. Then again, another article I found had the same US copyright year (2044), but was published on 1st April, so it may be an April Fool. :unsure:
Copyright in the UK usually ends 70 years after the death of the author, so 2020 is correct on this side of the Atlantic as Orwell died in January 1950.
July 27, 2009 at 5:05 pm
I read 1-3 fiction books a week and probably 2-5 technical books a year. I don't like to read electronic stuff as my eyes hurt after a while. Paper is the go for me. Much easier to read in bed too!
I must say that I don't like the idea that a company can just remove stuff from a person's e-reader/PC etc without any notification. I would prefer not to give companies that kind of access to my gadgets.
Cheers,
Nicole Bowman
Nothing is forever.
July 27, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Canada, Australia and Russia its as free as a bird. Then again, another article I found had the same US copyright year (2044), but was published on 1st April, so it may be an April Fool.
I am not sure about Russia but his books are required high school literature text in the old commonwealth nations. So the free in Canada and Australia maybe related.
But I could be wrong.
:Whistling:
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
July 27, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Nicole, I'd be curious what you thought of the e-ink. If you go to a Borders or a Target, you can see the Sony reader. Spend 15 minutes there, and I think you'll be surprised. The e-ink is as good as paper. Nothing like a iPod/laptop/cell phone screen.
July 28, 2009 at 6:51 am
Matt Miller (7/27/2009)
It really should be possible to hold onto the documents you paid for outside of the period of the class, and yet - a full 1/3 of the calsses I am in essentially force you to "rent" the material for the 10 weeks you're in the class, only to lose your access to the class materials within a month after it is done.
I totally sympathize with you on this one. The book fees you pay for while taking a class is essentially the same price as if you had purchased a hardcopy book outright. If I'm going to pay that kind of money, I'd like to have the book to keep. If I don't want to keep it, then I want some of my money back as though I'm selling a used book. Of course, I somehow don't think that I can purchase a used ebook!
After I received my degree from University of Phoenix online, they switched to a different online service that allows me to still have access to a very nice ebook library. Not only can I read them online, but I can download PDF copies of the books. Of course, the books have DRM and require me to use my UoP authentication to open them, but that's a small issue to me in view of the numerous books available.
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July 29, 2009 at 12:55 pm
I read between 3-5 Technical books a year (most tech reading is done online) and I read between 40-50 fiction books each year.
I understand the logic behind not putting the books in an electronic format where then can be manipulated and changed but... I would love to have them in a format where I could use Word or any other word processor to edit them. Highlighting areas, adding notes, cutting and pasting, etc.
Until that is available, give me an old fashioned paperback or hard back.
Joe
July 29, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Joe, you can highlight and annotate on the Kindle. Not quite the same thing, but just so you know.
I think it's a great device and platform, but there are issues to work out.
July 29, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Thanks for the update Steve. I will check it out this weekend.
Joe
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