May 10, 2011 at 10:16 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Poor Soul
May 10, 2011 at 11:31 pm
"... you're being paid for that job, so you are responsible. That means you have to learn how the technology in your environment works and how to solve the problems you have."
Steve, there is a hidden flaw in this approach: people love to learn about things they already know, and they (usually) do not proactively learn about things they do not know but they might need. It implies that you need an outsider's look to help you see what you don't know, but in a company that would mean that your (hopefully) more experienced boss will tell you how much of your money you should spend and how, to a large degree for the benefit of the company.
So it makes sense if the company pays for your education but makes you sign an agreement that you will stay for a set time. Good companies do this even for contractors, if they want them to renew after the end of the fiscal year or whatever may be the arbitrary cut-off of their POs.
In many cases cost of good courses and time given for self-study is more than reasonable insurance. One minute of downtime of the app on which I am now is in four digits, and the first one is not necessarily '1'. It follows that an hour of (likely) prevented downtime pays for lots of courses and books.
Besides, from the management perspective, if you give people opportunity to learn - courses, books, whatever - and something goes wrong, your a** is covered.
May 11, 2011 at 6:37 am
Good training classes are very helpful, and I'm fortunate to work for a company that actively supports job specific training and cross training.
But, if that option is not available there is a LOT you can do between web articles and excellent books that can at least provide a functional handle on the stuff needed to get the job done.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
May 11, 2011 at 7:07 am
Revenant (5/10/2011)
"... you're being paid for that job, so you are responsible. That means you have to learn how the technology in your environment works and how to solve the problems you have."Steve, there is a hidden flaw in this approach: people love to learn about things they already know, and they (usually) do not proactively learn about things they do not know but they might need. It implies that you need an outsider's look to help you see what you don't know, but in a company that would mean that your (hopefully) more experienced boss...
There are a lot of people that enjoy learning new things. That's how I got into DBA work. I was on a support team for a product and started diving into SQL to troubleshoot issues further before sending them to Dev. It's a little different than what Steve was talking about because it wasn't part of my job but something extra I could do.
Hopefully people in this situation will have someone else in the company that knows SQL well that can help out but I'm guessing that's frequently not the case. Which means knowing resources in the community can really help out. The forums here are good, I recently started testing a backup solution that's very thoroughly coded to use instead of coding a new one myself, and read blogs to get a feel for what's out there and what may be handy.
May 11, 2011 at 7:20 am
Of course the best way to learn is from peers and internal documentation. Unfortunately, in a small IT shop the new guy may not have anyone within the organization to turn to for questions about the technical or even operational aspects of their job. However, if you have a desk with an internet connection, and your supervisors arn't looking over your shoulder 9 hours a day, then they are giving you an opportunity to learn at least the technical stuff. As for the operational part, if there is no formal documention and noone seems to know for sure, then it looks like you're going to have to write it yourself.
If you have a NetFlix account, then watch a Clint Eastwood western movie for inspiration. You tell the townpeople how it's going to work from this point forward. Just for kicks, get yourself a cowboy hat and wear it to work.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 11, 2011 at 7:21 am
I invest in my own training and certifications just like I did for my graduate and postgraduate degrees. There are a couple of reasons:
1. When I invest in myself I can choose what I want to learn. Often it is directly related to my job, but not always.
2. I do not want to "owe" a certain amount of employment to a company I'm working for. If I want to move on I can without strings attached.
3. I often ask for training and sometimes get it paid for, but that is never going to provide as much knowledge as I want and need.
4. It's good for a career to "save the day" when something is going terribly wrong and no one at the company has been trained in how to resolve the issue. For you Star Trek fans, that's what Mr. Scott does.
Should a company pay for job specific training? Yes, I think they should. Is that the real world? Not so much. I can growl about it or do something about it. I choose the latter - usually.
May 11, 2011 at 7:25 am
It is amazing how ingrained in the culture of IT the idea of always being ready to quit is. Steve's expression of it as the first thing you need to do when put into a no-win situation is one of the more honest expressions of it that I have seen. It makes me wonder if there is a forum for managers where they discuss how to deal with high turnover rates. My guess there is there isn't one.
May 11, 2011 at 7:40 am
First, the assumption is that the person has some background that prompted management to make them "responsible". Classes and seminars are not the only way to learn. Being "responsible" means taking advantage of all of the opportunities to learn: books, manuals, mentors, web, forums, etc.
I have often been responsible for assessing or implementing new technology/software. The first thing I do is look for manuals or books to use as a reference and to get the big picture before trying to deal with the details.
Fortunately, you can find the answer or guidance to most anything on the web these days. There are a lot of DBA "cookbooks" out there. Figure out what is most important and start there - backup and recovery most likely. And, don't forget networking and firewall basics.
I have seen many people who simply refuse to take any initiative to learn on their own. They wait to be trained by the "company" until they are no longer a needed resource or their salary stagnates.
May 11, 2011 at 7:43 am
Eric M Russell (5/11/2011)
Of course the best way to learn is from peers and internal documentation. Unfortunately, in a small IT shop the new guy may not have anyone within the organization to turn to for questions about the technical or even operational aspects of their job. However, if you have a desk with an internet connection, and your supervisors arn't looking over your shoulder 9 hours a day, then they are giving you an opportunity to learn at least the technical stuff. As for the operational part, if there is no formal documention and noone seems to know for sure, then it looks like you're going to have to write it yourself.If you have a NetFlix account, then watch a Clint Eastwood western movie for inspiration. You tell the townpeople how it's going to work from this point forward. Just for kicks, get yourself a cowboy hat and wear it to work.
Just so I'm following this -
1) buy a cowboy hat and poncho
2) rarely talk (probably not a stretch for most of us)
3) inform users how it's going to work from now on, don't ask them
4) shoot everyone. Women, children, dogs, whatever.
That about right?
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
May 11, 2011 at 7:46 am
WolforthJ (5/11/2011)
It is amazing how ingrained in the culture of IT the idea of always being ready to quit is. Steve's expression of it as the first thing you need to do when put into a no-win situation is one of the more honest expressions of it that I have seen. It makes me wonder if there is a forum for managers where they discuss how to deal with high turnover rates. My guess there is there isn't one.
I don't think Steve is saying you should be ready to quit, he's saying that if something blows up, and you're "responsible" for it, then you should realize that the company may fire you. All jobs are temporary, even the ones that don't act like it. It just makes good sense to always have your resume updated, *especially* if you're in a position where you may have to take the fall.
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
May 11, 2011 at 7:51 am
So it makes sense if the company pays for your education but makes you sign an agreement that you will stay for a set time.
I thought that was illegal?
May 11, 2011 at 7:53 am
My understanding is that they can't "make" you sign it. What they can do, however, is not pay for training if you don't volunteer to sign it.....if you get my drift.;-)
May 11, 2011 at 7:55 am
jcrawf02 (5/11/2011)
Eric M Russell (5/11/2011)
Of course the best way to learn is from peers and internal documentation. Unfortunately, in a small IT shop the new guy may not have anyone within the organization to turn to for questions about the technical or even operational aspects of their job. However, if you have a desk with an internet connection, and your supervisors arn't looking over your shoulder 9 hours a day, then they are giving you an opportunity to learn at least the technical stuff. As for the operational part, if there is no formal documention and noone seems to know for sure, then it looks like you're going to have to write it yourself.If you have a NetFlix account, then watch a Clint Eastwood western movie for inspiration. You tell the townpeople how it's going to work from this point forward. Just for kicks, get yourself a cowboy hat and wear it to work.
Just so I'm following this -
1) buy a cowboy hat and poncho
2) rarely talk (probably not a stretch for most of us)
3) inform users how it's going to work from now on, don't ask them
4) shoot everyone. Women, children, dogs, whatever.
That about right?
I forgot to end my post with a winking smiley face, so here it is.;-)
Obviously Clint Eastwood's character would make a poor excuse for a sheriff in 1800s New York City, but in a small western mining town where villians and dogs are running amok and noone is wearing a badge, he stood suited for the purpose.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 11, 2011 at 8:18 am
jcrawf02 (5/11/2011)
WolforthJ (5/11/2011)
It is amazing how ingrained in the culture of IT the idea of always being ready to quit is. Steve's expression of it as the first thing you need to do when put into a no-win situation is one of the more honest expressions of it that I have seen. It makes me wonder if there is a forum for managers where they discuss how to deal with high turnover rates. My guess there is there isn't one.I don't think Steve is saying you should be ready to quit, he's saying that if something blows up, and you're "responsible" for it, then you should realize that the company may fire you. All jobs are temporary, even the ones that don't act like it. It just makes good sense to always have your resume updated, *especially* if you're in a position where you may have to take the fall.
I'll leave Steve to clarify what he meant, but I'll say that the best advice I ever got from my father was to carry a resignation letter in my wallet and to be prepared to use it. As I came to realize, being forced to keep a bad job because you are not financially able to quit is similar to slavery (and I don't mean that lightly; I've worked jobs where physical violence was a common management technique). Likewise not being able to risk getting fired for standing up for what's right. As my former boss at my current job used to tell people that were giving me grief over something. "Don't piss him off or he'll take his cap and go home." Everybody is on the same page right from day one and that makes everything a whole lot easier on everyone.
May 11, 2011 at 9:12 am
One thing you can do from a training perspective is to sign up for as many free webinars as possible and post them on your outlook calendar as meetings so others won't bother you as you watch them. I have been doing this for a couple of years now as a way to get familiar with numerous SQL Server and BI topics. It still works out better for my employers compared to sending me to a class for multiple days in a row because I am still available for most of the day and there is no cost to them. Usually people see that you are busy and don't try to schedule a meeting during the same time (usually...).
I also usually spend the first 30-45 minutes every day reading through SQL articles (usually SQLServerCentral, MSSQLTips and whichever other ones catch my eye). I have even gotten to work 30 minutes early just to ensure that I have my "training" time if I suspect a busy day of real work ahead of me. This is my time to invest in my future and I try to get this 30 minute window in every day even if it means eating lunch while catching up or staying a little late. I consider it worthwhile.
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