November 28, 2007 at 4:23 pm
The hybrids aren't necessarily that great. I had a 1990 Ford Fiestiva (4 cylinder engine) that got 50 mpg. I also had a 1993 Honda Civic (4 cylinder engine) that also got 50 mpg. The new Hybrid Civic gets about 45 mpg, so where is the improvement?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind getting Toyota Prius for driving around town, but technology in the automotive industry isn't really keeping pace with technologial growth in other areas.
November 28, 2007 at 4:34 pm
If you're on the highway a lot, without a lot of stopping and starting (which is apparently part of the trick required to recharge your hybrid), your Hybrid isn't going to show much improvement over a "regular" car, since you will mostly be running on the conventional part of the engine.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
November 28, 2007 at 5:23 pm
As I am not commuting between Colorado Springs and Denver anymore (did that for 15 years), most of my driving today is city based, so the hybrid would be useful for me.
Made a slight mistake on the Civic, it was a 1995 Civic, not a 1993. I had a used Ford Tempo (86) and a used Festiva (88) between the 90 Festiva and 95 Civic.
November 28, 2007 at 6:06 pm
I agree the automotive industry has not kept up with the times - and especially the USA automotive industry. There seems to be a huge resistance to change - as I'm sure many of us have experienced in our own industry with specific users ("but we've ALWAYS done it that way!") 😛
I think that's a pity, no matter which industry we're talking about. We could, as a society, be doing SOOO much better in many areas if more people embraced change as a positive, rather than a negative. I think the internet is helping in some respects simply because more information on alternatives is easily accessible to anyone with a computer and a connection (or a library nearby). The grassroots push for change is having an effect on everything from corporate social responsibility to politics. Perhaps it will change some entrenched attititudes - after all, if you can't beat them, join them, right?
Steph Brown
November 28, 2007 at 7:10 pm
We talked about diesels, but there are so few for sale. VW stopped the Jetta and we really wanted a 5 seater (to compare to the minivan).
The auto industry certainly hasn't done very well, but cheap gas for too long hasn't forced them. Add that to subsidies for SUVs for businesses a few years back and we went backwards with tons of Hummers being sold.
It needs to be a balance because we want to enjoy life in our cars, not just make them the most efficient they can be. I like to see the small steps being taken to make things better and I hope they continue.
November 29, 2007 at 6:37 am
i completely agree with your Stephanie. We are poorly designed with regard to urban sprawl and city layout. We cannot do anything without getting in a car. There is a reason i put 50K miles on my car in 18 months. No joyriding for me either.
I have every intention of putting up solar and wind devices in my yard to become as grid independant as possible. obviously it will take more to convince the geneeral population.
November 29, 2007 at 6:47 am
Steve Jones - Editor (11/28/2007)
We talked about diesels, but there are so few for sale. VW stopped the Jetta and we really wanted a 5 seater (to compare to the minivan).The auto industry certainly hasn't done very well, but cheap gas for too long hasn't forced them. Add that to subsidies for SUVs for businesses a few years back and we went backwards with tons of Hummers being sold.
It needs to be a balance because we want to enjoy life in our cars, not just make them the most efficient they can be. I like to see the small steps being taken to make things better and I hope they continue.
Part of the problem is our own government. The ever tightening EPA rules have basically killed most of the previously available diesels (including many still available in Europe), and is dragging the price up enormously. A Chrysler engineer claimed to a friend that there is $5000 worth of exhaust system in the new Cummins equipped pickups just to meet the current standards.
Brazil, when trying to establish the ethanol marked essentially banned personal diesel vehicles to force the market. Our own government is winding up doing the same thing.
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
November 29, 2007 at 6:48 am
Now here is an interesting hybrid:
http://www.tuningmag.net/?name=citroen-cross-cruiser-dakar-rallye
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
November 29, 2007 at 8:16 am
That is interesting. Sounds like diesel submarine technology.
Wonder if there's a snorkel if you hit deep sand 🙂
November 29, 2007 at 8:23 am
The Citroen is interesting, but not really a commuter vehicle. There is not enough information in the article regarding how the electro-mag motor is powered, or what kind of milage one can expect from the diesel motor. Not surprising, given that is is a concept car not yet in production, but it does make evaluating it difficult.
I think I'll stick with the 36/40 mpg Toyota Corolla station wagon (circa 1990) for now! I just don't have any expeditions planned in the next 6 months... 😀
Steph Brown
November 29, 2007 at 8:33 am
Stephanie J Brown (11/29/2007)
The Citroen is interesting, but not really a commuter vehicle. There is not enough information in the article regarding how the electro-mag motor is powered, or what kind of milage one can expect from the diesel motor. Not surprising, given that is is a concept car not yet in production, but it does make evaluating it difficult.I think I'll stick with the 36/40 mpg Toyota Corolla station wagon (circa 1990) for now! I just don't have any expeditions planned in the next 6 months... 😀
I really doubt that gas mileage is the key design objective (extra tires mean extra rolling friction). It seems that one drive axel is dedicated to the electric, which opens interesting options for traction control.
While there is a lots of hype about hybrids for fuel economy (and the ones currently marketed are biased very strongly in that direction), there are many different potential applications. Off roading with a separate computer controlled drive motor for each wheel (and no central drive shaft at all) would seem to be a promising idea.
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
November 29, 2007 at 8:52 am
there are major caveats to all methods...
hybrid -- need to charge, haul and dispose of batteries.
Diesel -- NOx emmissions
BioDiesel -- misunderstood
Ethanol -- Poor ROI - Yah it is cheap but it is subsidized and takes more fuel to create than it returns
Gasoline - poor fuel economy due to manufacturing\gov control and habits of buyers.
Switchgrass ethanol and sugar cane ehtanol are far more effective than corn based ethanol.
Soybean biodiesel uses the left overs after the soybeans are used for other manufacturing\farming uses and is much cleaner burning than traditional diesel. It has better power and economy as well in most cases.
Diesel and Gasoline - it is going away. Deal with it and lets spend our resources on both alternatives and social change.
i vote for lining the medians of all highways with wind turbines. The corridors are always gusty adn the land is useless. Get on that one woudl ya 🙂
November 29, 2007 at 9:10 am
Robert Hermsen (11/29/2007)
i vote for lining the medians of all highways with wind turbines. The corridors are always gusty adn the land is useless. Get on that one woudl ya 🙂
So you rememebr that issue of Popular Science as well huh? Perosnally considering places like Chicago which due to funneling produce large gusts in the city I am curious why noone has suggest wind generators between the buildings.
November 29, 2007 at 9:13 am
jay holovacs (11/29/2007)[hrOff roading with a separate computer controlled drive motor for each wheel (and no central drive shaft at all) would seem to be a promising idea.
About 10 years ago there was a big to do about the government working on a vehicle like this. The neat thing was it could spent the front and back tries in opposite directions allowing it to move sideways. Thought that would be great for parallel parking. 😛
November 30, 2007 at 9:23 am
Steve Jones - Editor (11/28/2007)
.... The last few years I looked at, people had gotten over 100k without changing batteries....
I have heard these claims, am suspicious. Every rechargeable battery product I have had contact with (computers, power tools, cameras etc), hydride, lithium ion etc. etc, suffers substantial loss of capacity within a year, by a couple years they are useless. This includes batteries that amp-hr per amp-hr are much more expensive that h-car batteries. It seems questionable that these manufacturers are soooo far behind Toyota which has to keep cost of batteries low, has to deal with bitter cold and extreme heat.
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
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