August 18, 2014 at 11:59 am
jay-h (8/18/2014)
I think that CS should not be a standalone field of knowledge. Computing professionals, to be of value, must understand the use of their information.CS knowledge is essential, but only useful if it's combined with other knowledge: accounting, finance, marketing, medicine, law, engineering, etc. Without a concrete tie in to the real world, CS is just an abstraction.
Not sure how you would choose which to combine it with.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
August 18, 2014 at 12:03 pm
My sister is a hairdresser and she makes $200 an hour. I think programming/development is fun, but I do not making $200 an hour doing it. The assumption is that IT is a better job, but I don't see this job as offering a better life in any way if you aren't interested in the work being done.
August 18, 2014 at 12:08 pm
Gary Varga (8/18/2014)
jay-h (8/18/2014)
I think that CS should not be a standalone field of knowledge. Computing professionals, to be of value, must understand the use of their information.CS knowledge is essential, but only useful if it's combined with other knowledge: accounting, finance, marketing, medicine, law, engineering, etc. Without a concrete tie in to the real world, CS is just an abstraction.
Not sure how you would choose which to combine it with.
That would depend on your interest and inclination. The point being that someone doing work in IT is far more valuable with a good understanding of his user's requirements. Someone who knows the lingo and details of finance is of far more value in a bank than someone who simply knows databases or programming. My son started out with an EE, and this provided part of the basis for his moving into Google.
There is a real need for people who are not just computer geeks, but have a good understanding the problems they are needed to help solve.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
August 18, 2014 at 12:13 pm
jay-h (8/18/2014)
I think that CS should not be a standalone field of knowledge. Computing professionals, to be of value, must understand the use of their information.CS knowledge is essential, but only useful if it's combined with other knowledge: accounting, finance, marketing, medicine, law, engineering, etc. Without a concrete tie in to the real world, CS is just an abstraction.
There need to be some who focus on the extreme side of things. These are needed on both the software and hardware side. They build compilers, databases, languages, chipsets, et cetera.
Others can be useful with mainly CS knowledge and the ability to pick up knowledge in areas they work in. For example, I have gained experience in Finance, Purchasing, Medical, Nuclear Engineering, Plumbing and Heating, Manufacturing, Distribution and Food Service. My degree is a BSCS, yet none of those areas were a challenge for me to come up to speed on. I would think most people in this group would feel similar.
Then there are the people who focus on other areas and have some IT duties. In HealthCare this is now called Informatics. But we should not confuse that role with a real CS role. Mainly they handle non technical issues with nursing and physicians, and perform basic IT roles like report writing that do not require any deep CS understanding.
Granted some people come into IT after pursuing other avenues, and a lot of them excel at what they do. I think that is somewhat uncommon though, and I feel we are ignoring the need for technical knowledge and focusing on simpler things, at the expense of quality.
Dave
August 26, 2014 at 11:54 am
David.Poole (8/18/2014)
K. Brian Kelley (8/15/2014)
I don't want my kids to go into IT.While some work places are great, I see the following too often:
- Long hours are expected of IT workers with no reasonable compensation offered back.
- IT is often thought of as a cost center, not a profit center, and its people are treated worse than the business units.
- IT's expertise on technology is often cast aside because someone read a magazine article while folks wouldn't consider doing this to an accountant or an engineer.
- IT's long hours tend to be nights and weekends, which hamper family life.
- IT's needs, because it is often though of as a cost center, are put as secondary to business' needs. This is even the case when were talking infrastructure upgrades/projects that keep business running. Of course, when those needs aren't met and something from business fails, IT is blamed.
I know this isn't true of all environments. However, it's true enough that it's worrisome about how good a career field will this be in the next 5-10 years?
+1. The truth will ouch.
Certainly some truths here, but have you looked at other occupations as well? Plenty of others treat peoples' skills and worth the same. Salespeople discarded quickly when they don't perform. Doctors/nurses/lawyers/teachers, lots of hours with little extra compensation. Architects, similar.
Most jobs are hard in many ways. Overall, I think IT has been pretty good to me.
August 26, 2014 at 11:54 am
crussell-931424 (8/18/2014)
Nothing wrong with a little competition.
Indeed
August 27, 2014 at 8:45 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/26/2014)
David.Poole (8/18/2014)
K. Brian Kelley (8/15/2014)
I don't want my kids to go into IT.While some work places are great, I see the following too often:
- Long hours are expected of IT workers with no reasonable compensation offered back.
- IT is often thought of as a cost center, not a profit center, and its people are treated worse than the business units.
- IT's expertise on technology is often cast aside because someone read a magazine article while folks wouldn't consider doing this to an accountant or an engineer.
- IT's long hours tend to be nights and weekends, which hamper family life.
- IT's needs, because it is often though of as a cost center, are put as secondary to business' needs. This is even the case when were talking infrastructure upgrades/projects that keep business running. Of course, when those needs aren't met and something from business fails, IT is blamed.
I know this isn't true of all environments. However, it's true enough that it's worrisome about how good a career field will this be in the next 5-10 years?
+1. The truth will ouch.
Certainly some truths here, but have you looked at other occupations as well? Plenty of others treat peoples' skills and worth the same. Salespeople discarded quickly when they don't perform. Doctors/nurses/lawyers/teachers, lots of hours with little extra compensation. Architects, similar.
Most jobs are hard in many ways. Overall, I think IT has been pretty good to me.
Assuming that you like what you do, if you aren't happy with your job keep looking elsewhere until you find something better. It takes a little bit of courage to do so and only gets harder the longer you wait. I made the mistake of staying in the same place for the first 10 years of my career even when I was no longer happy there. The last 10 years have been in various industries and overall a good experience. I wish I had done it sooner.
September 9, 2014 at 11:14 am
When investigating colleges and majors for my kids and and the children of friends/family, most of them looked at the math requirements of CS majors and rejected the major as an option. Most of the colleges that offer Computer related majors have requirements for 2 or 3 years of calculus. I know a lot of kids with an aptitude for computer related careers that choose other majors so they can avoid the Calculus classes. I've worked in computers for almost 30 years and a wide variety of industries and have never needed or known anyone that needed to use any math beyond basic algebra. If we really want to encourage people to pursue technology careers, we need to get the colleges to create majors and minors that are directed at actual career paths. it appears to me that many of the colleges create gen ed and major requirements to ensure jobs for professors, instead of preparing students for careers.
September 9, 2014 at 12:04 pm
jchalmers (9/9/2014)
When investigating colleges and majors for my kids and and the children of friends/family, most of them looked at the math requirements of CS majors and rejected the major as an option. Most of the colleges that offer Computer related majors have requirements for 2 or 3 years of calculus. I know a lot of kids with an aptitude for computer related careers that choose other majors so they can avoid the Calculus classes. I've worked in computers for almost 30 years and a wide variety of industries and have never needed or known anyone that needed to use any math beyond basic algebra. If we really want to encourage people to pursue technology careers, we need to get the colleges to create majors and minors that are directed at actual career paths. it appears to me that many of the colleges create gen ed and major requirements to ensure jobs for professors, instead of preparing students for careers.
I was in a final year of a BSc in Software Engineering attending the first lecture of a module on simulation when I stated, due to some of the lecture's content, that I had never done calculus. The lecturer and every one of the students looked at me with incredulous looks as though I had said "I can't read".
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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