The New DBA
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I like the idea of being a DBA (for coolness sake) as a data content and quality analyst (role, not title.) When I was titled DBA, my functions were more of a data engineer by today's definitions. Given data requirements, the DBA had to create the model, ensure security, and maximize delivery. As usual, DBA was accountable for everything else, including programmer usage and hardware sync.
This forum has proven once again that titles have very little meaning, but individuals can overcome organizational obstacles to solve the convoluted mysteries.
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Over the many years I have been a "DBA" I have found the expectations vary. But, I feel it all comes down to one main responsible role. The DBA is in charge of Data Integrity. I was once told by a CEO of a large company, that if he (the CEO) made a decision to shut down the company it could take him months to do so. But if a DBA decided to do this, it would take minutes. The role of the DBA keeps a company in business.
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xsevensinzx (6/28/2015)
For someone like me, DBA could easily mean a lot of things. Yet, I still believe that the DBA for one example is the one person who ensures disaster recovery, performance and security is at the highest priority of their tasks. While I do fill that role among many others, I humbly decline that I am a DBA regardless of quality while others look at me as the DBA.That said, what is the catchall title for someone who wears multiple hats? I guess that is the problem. It's the DBA right? :hehe:
This sounds so familiar. Thanks for saying it so well.
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I wasn't going to post on this thread because the term DBA has become so diluted by idiocy and incompetence that the term "DBA" has almost become an insulting term to me.
As some of you may know, I've interviewed a lot of folks for the position of "Sr. Developer" and "Sr. Database Administrator" over the last several years and with great disappointment. Most of the "developers" claimed over 5 years experience and all of the "DBAs" claimed over 10 years experience and yet roughly 90% of both groups couldn NOT even tell me how to get the current date and time using T-SQL. Only one of the "DBAs" could tell me how to do a native backup and restore. Of that group, many claimed extreme performance tuning knowledge and yet only one out of a group of now more that 30 candidates could tell me a decent definition of what a Clustered Index actually is never mind how a Non-Clustered Index is related to a Clustered Index. I even had one of the "DBAs" tell me that the reason why they didn't know anything about Clustered Indexes is because they've never had to work on a Clustered Server. :sick: That's not nerves. That's not ignorance. That's gross stupidity and a total lack of intellectual curiosity.
I also love it when a supposed expert posts an article on an SQL site or their own blog having to do with some performance technique and then they post the code they use to build "substantial amounts of test data" using none other than, you guessed it, a WHILE loop or a GO nn.
In case you're wondering what actually pushed me over the edge to post on this thread, here's a post that came out just a couple of hours ago...
As you can see, this person has DBA titles posted in no less than 3 places and doesn't even know how to format a drive never mind set up TempDB. This is the type of person that gives the title "DBA" a bad name and has caused many managers in thousands of companies to put the family jewels of the company, the data, into incompetent hands. It's no wonder that many of them think that they don't need DBAs because any moroff can be this smart. The term "Software Engineer" has also suffered in a similar fashion at the hands of this type of person.
For me, it's gotten to point where I want to say "Don't call me a DBA because I actually do care about your data". Of course, that wouldn't be right because there are actually a bunch of good people that, unlike the apparent overwhelming majority that are nothing but self serving posers and fakers, do great jobs at being real DBAs.
Sorry for the rant but just like the little girl on the "Sixth Sense" that had slowly died from poisoning said right after a major hurl, "I feel much better now". 😉
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
xsevensinzx (6/28/2015)
I'm only 2 years into my role as more or less the accidental DBA to most. However, that is not my title on paper. I am just a developer who wears multiple hats of the DBA, architect, manager, ETL developer, report writer and so forth.For someone like me, DBA could easily mean a lot of things. Yet, I still believe that the DBA for one example is the one person who ensures disaster recovery, performance and security is at the highest priority of their tasks. While I do fill that role among many others, I humbly decline that I am a DBA regardless of quality while others look at me as the DBA.
That said, what is the catchall title for someone who wears multiple hats? I guess that is the problem. It's the DBA right? :hehe:
Accidental or not and according to what I've observed in your good posts (although it's not my place to judge, you and several others on this site are great examples), you have a diverse set of skills that you've developed on your own through research and experimentation, you have a helpful attitude, you have intellectual curiosity, and you do have the right kind of humility. Degreed or not, certified or not, I think that if we combine two words that you've used, we end up with the very appropriate never used before title of and definition for...
[font="Arial Black"]Catchall DBA:[/font]
While possibly not an expert in some areas, this type of DBA can generally be considered to be a "Jack of all trades and master of many". Like any devoted System Administrator and Database Administrator, their first and most important tasks are to protect the company's data, ensure that it is always available for appropriate use, protect it all from inappropriate use, and protect the servers and other devices on which the data lays upon. Typically working for small companies as "the computer guy" and the "go to guy" (including the ladies), they are a quintessential part of the lifeblood of the company and virtually no task is too great or too small for them to attempt and usually exceed expectations of success in features, safety, innovation, and time to delivery. They can hold their own and, many times, excel in database programing, Windows Administration, Database Administration, computer infrastructure, system interfaces, and may even lay cable and punch down telephone wire. Some also double as the resident front-end programmer and many frequently double as system architects, both software and hardware wise. Don't let the possible lack of formal credentials dissuade you from hiring such a person. Although they frequently carry no degree or certifications, they are intensely motivated yet remain humble and mentor-like and they have a keen sense of what is right and what is not because they have suffered through the greatest course known to man... real life in the trenches.
It's both my pleasure and honor to work with so many people on this site that fit that description.
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
Jeff Moden (6/29/2015)
...As some of you may know, I've interviewed a lot of folks for the position of "Sr. Developer" and "Sr. Database Administrator" over the last several years and with great disappointment. Most of the "developers" claimed over 5 years experience and all of the "DBAs" claimed over 10 years experience and yet roughly 90% of both groups couldn NOT even tell me how to get the current date and time using T-SQL. Only one of the "DBAs" could tell me how to do a native backup and restore. Of that group, many claimed extreme performance tuning knowledge and yet only one out of a group of now more that 30 candidates could tell me a decent definition of what a Clustered Index actually is never mind how a Non-Clustered Index is related to a Clustered Index.
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So after one year and 30 inteviews, not one candidate could answer these basic questions?
You need to find a new head hunter or start posting job openings in places where real DBAs hang out.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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Eric M Russell (6/30/2015)
Jeff Moden (6/29/2015)
...As some of you may know, I've interviewed a lot of folks for the position of "Sr. Developer" and "Sr. Database Administrator" over the last several years and with great disappointment. Most of the "developers" claimed over 5 years experience and all of the "DBAs" claimed over 10 years experience and yet roughly 90% of both groups couldn NOT even tell me how to get the current date and time using T-SQL. Only one of the "DBAs" could tell me how to do a native backup and restore. Of that group, many claimed extreme performance tuning knowledge and yet only one out of a group of now more that 30 candidates could tell me a decent definition of what a Clustered Index actually is never mind how a Non-Clustered Index is related to a Clustered Index.
...
So after one year and 30 inteviews, not one candidate could answer these basic questions?
You need to find a new head hunter or start posting job openings in places where real DBAs hang out.
Actually, it's more like 3 years and agreed. We went through multiple agencies, none of which I liked to begin with but I didn't have a choice in the matter.
It's not just in one company, either. We went through a round of trying to hire a Sr. DBA at one company I worked at and got lucky. None of the dozen DBA candidates were worth a hoot at all. I'm mean they were really ignorant of what a DBA actually does. Then, one company presented Geoff Albin and that's how I met him. My boss thought he was a bit arrogant and he wasn't. My boss thought that because he was the first candidate that actually knew what he was talking about and his confidence came across as arrogance to my boss. My comment was "Get used to it... he's your new DBA and, deep down, you know it. Don't let him go. Make an offer today and accept his counter if he makes one."
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
Jeff Moden (6/30/2015)
Eric M Russell (6/30/2015)
Jeff Moden (6/29/2015)
...As some of you may know, I've interviewed a lot of folks for the position of "Sr. Developer" and "Sr. Database Administrator" over the last several years and with great disappointment. Most of the "developers" claimed over 5 years experience and all of the "DBAs" claimed over 10 years experience and yet roughly 90% of both groups couldn NOT even tell me how to get the current date and time using T-SQL. Only one of the "DBAs" could tell me how to do a native backup and restore. Of that group, many claimed extreme performance tuning knowledge and yet only one out of a group of now more that 30 candidates could tell me a decent definition of what a Clustered Index actually is never mind how a Non-Clustered Index is related to a Clustered Index.
...
So after one year and 30 inteviews, not one candidate could answer these basic questions?
You need to find a new head hunter or start posting job openings in places where real DBAs hang out.
Actually, it's more like 3 years and agreed. We went through multiple agencies, none of which I liked to begin with but I didn't have a choice in the matter.
It's not just in one company, either. We went through a round of trying to hire a Sr. DBA at one company I worked at and got lucky. None of the dozen DBA candidates were worth a hoot at all. I'm mean they were really ignorant of what a DBA actually does. Then, one company presented Geoff Albin and that's how I met him. My boss thought he was a bit arrogant and he wasn't. My boss thought that because he was the first candidate that actually knew what he was talking about and his confidence came across as arrogance to my boss. My comment was "Get used to it... he's your new DBA and, deep down, you know it. Don't let him go. Make an offer today and accept his counter if he makes one."
If you don't mind me asking, what is the salary range you're looking to hire for?
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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... I've interviewed a lot of folks for the position of "Sr. Developer" and "Sr. Database Administrator" over the last several years and with great disappointment. Most of the "developers" claimed over 5 years experience and all of the "DBAs" claimed over 10 years experience and yet roughly 90% of both groups couldn NOT even tell me how to get the current date and time using T-SQL. Only one of the "DBAs" could tell me how to do a native backup and restore.
Most of the 'DBAs' with whom I've worked are glorified tape-spinners. Every so often, though, I have the great professional pleasure of working with someone worthy of the title.
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GoofyGuy (6/30/2015)
... I've interviewed a lot of folks for the position of "Sr. Developer" and "Sr. Database Administrator" over the last several years and with great disappointment. Most of the "developers" claimed over 5 years experience and all of the "DBAs" claimed over 10 years experience and yet roughly 90% of both groups couldn NOT even tell me how to get the current date and time using T-SQL. Only one of the "DBAs" could tell me how to do a native backup and restore.
Most of the 'DBAs' with whom I've worked are glorified tape-spinners. Every so often, though, I have the great professional pleasure of working with someone worthy of the title.
Are you saying it's a bit like comparing a DJ spinning records to a real musician who can sing and play guitar?
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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Eric M Russell (6/30/2015)
GoofyGuy (6/30/2015)
... I've interviewed a lot of folks for the position of "Sr. Developer" and "Sr. Database Administrator" over the last several years and with great disappointment. Most of the "developers" claimed over 5 years experience and all of the "DBAs" claimed over 10 years experience and yet roughly 90% of both groups couldn NOT even tell me how to get the current date and time using T-SQL. Only one of the "DBAs" could tell me how to do a native backup and restore.
Most of the 'DBAs' with whom I've worked are glorified tape-spinners. Every so often, though, I have the great professional pleasure of working with someone worthy of the title.
Are you saying it's a bit like comparing a DJ spinning records to a real musician who can sing and play guitar?
That's a pretty apt analogy, Eric, yes. Thanks for that.
I do want to say that people like yourself and many others on this forum are the 'musicians' of SQL Server. A hugely impressive lot.
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Eric M Russell (6/30/2015)
Jeff Moden (6/30/2015)
Eric M Russell (6/30/2015)
Jeff Moden (6/29/2015)
...As some of you may know, I've interviewed a lot of folks for the position of "Sr. Developer" and "Sr. Database Administrator" over the last several years and with great disappointment. Most of the "developers" claimed over 5 years experience and all of the "DBAs" claimed over 10 years experience and yet roughly 90% of both groups couldn NOT even tell me how to get the current date and time using T-SQL. Only one of the "DBAs" could tell me how to do a native backup and restore. Of that group, many claimed extreme performance tuning knowledge and yet only one out of a group of now more that 30 candidates could tell me a decent definition of what a Clustered Index actually is never mind how a Non-Clustered Index is related to a Clustered Index.
...
So after one year and 30 inteviews, not one candidate could answer these basic questions?
You need to find a new head hunter or start posting job openings in places where real DBAs hang out.
Actually, it's more like 3 years and agreed. We went through multiple agencies, none of which I liked to begin with but I didn't have a choice in the matter.
It's not just in one company, either. We went through a round of trying to hire a Sr. DBA at one company I worked at and got lucky. None of the dozen DBA candidates were worth a hoot at all. I'm mean they were really ignorant of what a DBA actually does. Then, one company presented Geoff Albin and that's how I met him. My boss thought he was a bit arrogant and he wasn't. My boss thought that because he was the first candidate that actually knew what he was talking about and his confidence came across as arrogance to my boss. My comment was "Get used to it... he's your new DBA and, deep down, you know it. Don't let him go. Make an offer today and accept his counter if he makes one."
If you don't mind me asking, what is the salary range you're looking to hire for?
It varied from company to company (I also do interview for companies that don't have the expertise to conduct such interviews) but typical ranges, depending on the breadth of the expected job ranged from 95K to 120K. It's not like we were drawing flies with lowball offers. Most of the time, that didn't matter for those candidates that the different companies were trying to hire direct because the salary wasn't revealed if the candidate didn't actually pass muster. For those companies that used recruiters where the salary was made known to the candidate long before the first interview, it didn't seem to matter. We still got the same ignorant candidates.
It may be a case of "the good ones already have good jobs with good pay and benefits that they like and aren't likely to leave".
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
Jeff Moden (6/29/2015)
xsevensinzx (6/28/2015)
I'm only 2 years into my role as more or less the accidental DBA to most. However, that is not my title on paper. I am just a developer who wears multiple hats of the DBA, architect, manager, ETL developer, report writer and so forth.For someone like me, DBA could easily mean a lot of things. Yet, I still believe that the DBA for one example is the one person who ensures disaster recovery, performance and security is at the highest priority of their tasks. While I do fill that role among many others, I humbly decline that I am a DBA regardless of quality while others look at me as the DBA.
That said, what is the catchall title for someone who wears multiple hats? I guess that is the problem. It's the DBA right? :hehe:
Accidental or not and according to what I've observed in your good posts (although it's not my place to judge, you and several others on this site are great examples), you have a diverse set of skills that you've developed on your own through research and experimentation, you have a helpful attitude, you have intellectual curiosity, and you do have the right kind of humility. Degreed or not, certified or not, I think that if we combine two words that you've used, we end up with the very appropriate never used before title of and definition for...
[font="Arial Black"]Catchall DBA:[/font]
While possibly not an expert in some areas, this type of DBA can generally be considered to be a "Jack of all trades and master of many". Like any devoted System Administrator and Database Administrator, their first and most important tasks are to protect the company's data, ensure that it is always available for appropriate use, protect it all from inappropriate use, and protect the servers and other devices on which the data lays upon. Typically working for small companies as "the computer guy" and the "go to guy" (including the ladies), they are a quintessential part of the lifeblood of the company and virtually no task is too great or too small for them to attempt and usually exceed expectations of success in features, safety, innovation, and time to delivery. They can hold their own and, many times, excel in database programing, Windows Administration, Database Administration, computer infrastructure, system interfaces, and may even lay cable and punch down telephone wire. Some also double as the resident front-end programmer and many frequently double as system architects, both software and hardware wise. Don't let the possible lack of formal credentials dissuade you from hiring such a person. Although they frequently carry no degree or certifications, they are intensely motivated yet remain humble and mentor-like and they have a keen sense of what is right and what is not because they have suffered through the greatest course known to man... real life in the trenches.
It's both my pleasure and honor to work with so many people on this site that fit that description.
My compliments, Jeff, on your title and job description. Now all you have to do is wait for someone to come across your desk with that title in their experience section.
I'm also surprised by the general lack of knowledge by "experts" and lack of intellectual curiosity. I don't really understand it because it's contrary to how I view life. Then again, why I don't know something, I admit it and usually want to learn more about it.
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There is a certain type of candidate who all seem to share the same basic resume, which seems impressive on the surface (a tag cloud with 30 different technical skills), but none of them live up to it. It's as if there is a plastic DBA / Developer factory somewhere that presses them out from the same mold, complete with an identical back story and new suit.
None of the following are technical questions, they're just simple and conversational, but they reveal a lot.
"I have your resume here in front of me, but could you briefly go over your work history for the past 10 years; the name of each company, your title, and a little detail about the role and day to day responsibilities ?"
"So what is motivating you to leave your current position at company X ?"
"Tell me about the last database performance issue you resolved."
"So, switching gears a bit, tell me, what in your opinion are three of the most important things that separate a good DBA / Developer from a bad one."
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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None of the following are technical questions, they're just simple and conversational, but they reveal a lot.
One question I often ask is, 'What are the title and author of the last book you read?'
It evokes some rather interesting responses.
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