March 25, 2010 at 10:02 am
Revenant (3/25/2010)
... I am assuming these exams are not generating enough to pay for the writers who understands the language on a much lower level.
When you say "on a much lower level," do you perchance mean "on as much higher level"? IMO anyone who wants to test someone else's skills ought to have higher understanding of the topic, as in "higher education."
In engineering speak lower level means knowing the language in your sleep Microsoft knows such people in C# one pesky problem they are not cheap.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 25, 2010 at 10:11 am
Microsoft CSS engineers whom I talk to in their offshored locations say they have to be certified before recruited. Many of them do use braindumps to pass and then they go through rigorous training for CSS. The certs are just to ensure they know some basics and some of them are pretty smart at what they do.
March 25, 2010 at 11:02 am
Gift Peddie's argument strikes me as a good example of a fallacy of converse accident: elitists (i.e. those who wish to narrow the field of certified developers/technicians) will clearly look disfavorably on brain dumps, therefore anyone who looks disfavorably on brain dumps must be an elitist.
I did not say anything about braindump please read my post again.
However, I can see some arguments for such resources having validity. Personally, I'm a good test taker, so these certification processes play into my wheelhouse. I used to have Cisco certification. That was a difficult process, but I passed on my first try. I've met many network admins who could run circles around me on a Cisco router, but they'd failed the test several times.
This again is something I know Cisco exams are not much better than Microsoft I had participated in CCNA user group in Houston a while back to help boost attendance for the person running the group. All a person need at this base level is octet counting, Cisco also paid Vue to go exclusive with it leaving Microsoft exam takers in state like Michigan to drive 45 minutes to an hour to the nearest Prometric. So the drive time and exam duration makes it open to only people who can afford the time and resources.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 25, 2010 at 11:13 am
Gift Peddie (3/25/2010)
This again is something I know Cisco exams are not much better than Microsoft I had participated in CCNA user group in Houston a while back to help boost attendance for the person running the group. All a person need at this base level is octet counting,
I disagree with that assertion. I studied for the CCNA exam and wrote it. I passed the exam and there was much more than octet counting involved.
Cisco also paid Vue to go exclusive with it leaving Microsoft exam takers in state like Michigan to drive 45 minutes to an hour to the nearest Prometric. So the drive time and exam duration makes it open to only people who can afford the time and resources.
What is your point with this?
Furthermore, if you are not proclaiming that it is ok to use braindumps, then what are you saying?
You have yet to clarify your statements which all appear to confirm that you are in favor of braindumps (though you have not explicitly said the word).
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
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March 25, 2010 at 11:21 am
I disagree with that assertion. I studied for the CCNA exam and wrote it. I passed the exam and there was much more than octet counting involved.
When you have the used router you can pickup on Ebay and the simulations that comes with either books or test prep.
What is your point with this?
Furthermore, if you are not proclaiming that it is ok to use braindumps, then what are you saying?
You have yet to clarify your statements which all appear to confirm that you are in favor of braindumps (though you have not explicitly said the word).
My point is how many people in the places less served by Prometric can take Microsoft exams if they don't live in education friendly states like New York and California?
I posted the text below a while back in the thread.
My reply did not include cheating yet that is what you are talking about, before Kaplan that runs most of these tests bought Transcenders most people were saying their tests should be banned because those tests contains most possible question combination. So the Lawyers, Doctors, and MBA the former regulated by the Government can use such tests but software cannot.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 25, 2010 at 11:26 am
Gift Peddie (3/25/2010)
I disagree with that assertion. I studied for the CCNA exam and wrote it. I passed the exam and there was much more than octet counting involved.
When you have the used router you can pickup on Ebay and the simulations that comes with either books or test prep.
Furthermore, if you are not proclaiming that it is ok to use braindumps, then what are you saying?
You have yet to clarify your statements which all appear to confirm that you are in favor of braindumps (though you have not explicitly said the word).
I posted the text below a while back in the thread.
My reply did not include cheating yet that is what you are talking about, before Kaplan that runs most of these tests bought Transcenders most people were saying their tests should be banned because those tests contains most possible question combination. So the Lawyers, Doctors, and MBA the former regulated by the Government can use such tests but software cannot.
But there are legitimate testing packages that can be purchased and used in the legitimate study of these principles. Furthermore, people are free to purchase software and books as necessary to be able to practice for the exams.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 25, 2010 at 11:27 am
You're right, you used the term software, and I was inaccurately using the term "brain dump" to cover all processes by which test questions and answers are provided to candidates (which I imagine includes the s/w you were discussing). However, my point that you were overgeneralizing with your elitist comment still stands.
It does seem to me that to consider your judgement about a test for which you participated in a user group as being more valid than that of someone who actually took the test is a touch presumptuous. I can guarantee you that the test covers much more than octet counting.
I would also make the claim that any certification test proffered by any vendor would be open to "only people who could afford the time and resources" so I'm not quite following your point.
March 25, 2010 at 11:33 am
Steve Thompson-454462 (3/25/2010)
I would also make the claim that any certification test proffered by any vendor would be open to "only people who could afford the time and resources" so I'm not quite following your point.
Valid point. All certification exams require some time, effort, and money. The MCM, for example, must be done during a three week course at Microsoft. That is quite a time commitment. The MCM is also quite expensive, and isn't just for the fly by night IT person. It comes down to a matter of how much you are willing to invest in that endeavour.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 25, 2010 at 11:37 am
Gift Peddie (3/25/2010)
... I'm not accusing you of this, ...
If you accuse me of that, then you have not read my posts here, TechNet and MSDN.
I have read your posts. That's why I specifically said I was not accusing you of this. There are others whom I am accusing, but not you.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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March 25, 2010 at 12:25 pm
You're right, you used the term software, and I was inaccurately using the term "brain dump" to cover all processes by which test questions and answers are provided to candidates (which I imagine includes the s/w you were discussing).
However, my point that you were overgeneralizing with your elitist comment still stands.
It does seem to me that to consider your judgement about a test for which you participated in a user group as being more valid than that of someone who actually took the test is a touch presumptuous. I can guarantee you that the test covers much more than octet counting.
You are right about over generalizing and my comment about octet counting is what the person who was helping with the group who was a CCNP he said everything beyond the router is not relevant. This when Intel was making Wireless NIC cards that is also router implicitly and we all know Cisco bought Linksy.
I would also make the claim that any certification test proffered by any vendor would be open to "only people who could afford the time and resources" so I'm not quite following your point.
California and New York now provides software education ala cart online for the unemployed. The great United States are only united.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 25, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Gift Peddie (3/25/2010)
This when Intel was making Wireless NIC cards that is also router implicitly and we all know Cisco bought Linksy....
California and New York now provides software education ala cart online for the unemployed. The great United States are only united.
Well, I would certainly agree that no one working solely with Linksys equipment needs to be certified (then again, based on the number of unsecured networks I can find from my apartment this may not be a bad idea).
And I'm also for offering training services to the unemployed (I hear the Tea Party mobilizing as I type).
So, it feels like we're moving towards consensus here. 🙂
March 25, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Gift Peddie (3/25/2010)
I have read it, several times. My interpretation of what you wrote still stands. To understand what you were trying to say, perhaps you should explain further what it is you meant.
You are entitled to your interpretations, ...
Indeed. The problem is that this is not just some personal interpretation or opinion on Gus's part, this is the predominant interpretation that any reasonable and competent speaker of English would come to after reading your post. If you want to continue claiming to be a reasonable and competent speaker of English, Gift, then you need to start taking responsibility for your posts and their meaning, as the rest of us do.
Saying "chocolate" and then later claiming that it really means "vanilla" except in someone else's personal interpretation is neither reasonable nor competent (nor, in all likelihood, honest).
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March 25, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Chad Crawford (3/24/2010)
🙂 When I got my pilot's license, I had a book with every possible question on the test in it, and it was (and I assume still is) quite legal to study from. I did quite well on the test. (but yes - there is a practical exam too)
Chad
This is true with most standardized exams from LSAT, GMAT and GRE exams add in the colleges that professors leave past tests at the school library. The software complaints are more from the elites trying to keep people out.
This is my post in reply to Chad Crawford's related comment there is nothing here that relates to cheating so if you have problem with the post it is personal and I am not explaining anything.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 25, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Gift Peddie (3/25/2010)
This is true with most standardized exams from LSAT, GMAT and GRE exams add in the colleges that professors leave past tests at the school library. The software complaints are more from the elites trying to keep people out.
The underlined section is the part that is causing the biggest issue here.
It appears that you are saying that certain individuals are preventing you from using a braindump. We know that there is software and study materials provided by the Companies for which the certification applies. I don't see how they are trying to keep people out by any means other than requiring an NDA be signed and attempting to prohibit the use of braindumps. Otherwise, there is no more attempt to keep people out from the software certification, industry certification than there is to become a lawyer, pilot, doctor, electrician, mechanic, plumber, or any other profession of trade that requires time, effort, money and resources to become educated in that field.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 25, 2010 at 7:01 pm
The underlined section is the part that is causing the biggest issue here.
It appears that you are saying that certain individuals are preventing you from using a braindump. We know that there is software and study materials provided by the Companies for which the certification applies. I don't see how they are trying to keep people out by any means other than requiring an NDA be signed and attempting to prohibit the use of braindumps.
There is nothing in there that relates to braindump but here are some fun facts about access to Microsoft software education.
The BOL Microsoft gives out free was $100 when I was studying for MCDBA, I made Microsoft offer it for free.
The book below is the worst in Microsoft press history it comes with almost 100 pages of errata. Education in America comes with built in road blocks my issues are more about access and good material which Microsoft comes short of providing.
I repeat I am not saying anything about cheating but the elites are created by Microsoft and corporate America.
http://www.amazon.com/MCTS-Self-Paced-Training-Exam-70-502/dp/0735625662/ref=pd_sim_b_5
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
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