March 23, 2010 at 2:30 pm
dma-669038 (3/23/2010)
Lastly on the MCM..to me a lot of it seems to be knowledge for the sake of knowledge alone. I could understand that if it was history or literature but technical knowledge gets dated soon and am not sure how the investment will pay off
Excellent point, as much as they cost to get and after all the time, energy, and money spent getting them, they are almost out of date, and it is time upgrade your cert again. It is a never-ending process that I am still not sure whether the reason Mickeysoft came up with certs in the first place is on keeping individual DBA skills sharp and up to date, as much as it is a cash-cow money generator for them. I don't know about all of you guys, but they have enough money as it is. This definitely needs to be taken out of their hands, but even with that, you still have the Braindump issue to resolve. There is no easy answer, I guess. TravisDBA.
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
March 23, 2010 at 2:34 pm
That is a useful and practical reminder that even when you never stop learning, you never know it all. (Unlike lots of juniors who would like to be considered intermediates.)
March 23, 2010 at 2:38 pm
We asked MS once about the 3 year product cycle and if that decision was made considering enterprise environments, since big environments dont normally upgrade once in 3 years - the answer we got was that a significant base of sql users are in the small to mid size business market, although sql server has made big inroads into the enterpise market with past 2 versions. Well you really don't need MCM level skills to work in small or mid size businesses. One of the major selling points of MCM is that your consulting rate can double, but how many high level consulting gigs are out there really? If you just look at sql celebrity blogs which have grown exponentially over the past few years it looks like the market may be saturated with 'enterprise' consultants now. It would help if there was some kind of survey done on demand vs supply of sql skills and at what level. If MS wants to promote MCM they might have to do it themselves.
March 23, 2010 at 2:44 pm
dma-669038 (3/23/2010)
Well you really don't need MCM level skills to work in small or mid size businesses.
I've spent the past 25 years working in a number of environments both large and small. All of my SQL Server experience has been in the SMB market -- hence no experience in the enterprise aspects. While the enterprise-level companies spend more money have have a greater demand on SQL Server than SMB companies do, all together the SMB market is much larger. Due to that, I also believe that the percentage of all the enterprise extras in SQL Server are hardly utilized per installation. What they really use are the "meat and potatoes" of SQL Server without all the trimmings.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sqlrv
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March 23, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Jack Corbett (3/23/2010)
Personally I think the certification debate ought to be a priority for the organization. Setting some kind of continuing education should be important as well. I'll have to put it in my platform when I run for the board.:-D
It has been discussed.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 23, 2010 at 6:48 pm
GilaMonster (3/23/2010)
Jack Corbett (3/23/2010)
Personally I think the certification debate ought to be a priority for the organization. Setting some kind of continuing education should be important as well. I'll have to put it in my platform when I run for the board.:-DIt has been discussed.
I'm sure it has. I know I have discussed it with a couple of board members. There are other things that need to happen first I think, but it needs to be re-assessed.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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March 24, 2010 at 4:15 am
Jack Corbett (3/23/2010)
GilaMonster (3/23/2010)
I'm sure it has. I know I have discussed it with a couple of board members. There are other things that need to happen first I think, but it needs to be re-assessed.
I was on a committee that looked at this. It was a massive undertaking, and time being scarce didn't get far. Part of it was that we didn't know how to tackle it, or at least the 5 or 6 of us debating it could not agree on exactly what process to follow.
There was a time that IEEE was looking to do database professionals, but as of yet they have not (http://www.ieee.org/web/education/professional_certification/index.html)
I'd like to see this start going, though I think we need a forum, and a long debate on the PASS site. We probably also need someone(s) to build a summary every quarter of where we stand and issues.
March 24, 2010 at 10:24 am
Steve Jones - Editor (3/24/2010)
I'd like to see this start going, though I think we need a forum, and a long debate on the PASS site. We probably also need someone(s) to build a summary every quarter of where we stand and issues.
I vote for --CELKO-- 😀
Dr. Les Cardwell, DCS-DSS
Enterprise Data Architect
Central Lincoln PUD
March 24, 2010 at 11:02 am
Les Cardwell (3/24/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (3/24/2010)
I'd like to see this start going, though I think we need a forum, and a long debate on the PASS site. We probably also need someone(s) to build a summary every quarter of where we stand and issues.
I vote for --CELKO-- 😀
If you are doing a platform agnostic cert then Celko would work, but for a SQL Server specific cert, then he might not be the best rep.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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March 24, 2010 at 11:14 am
Jack Corbett (3/24/2010)
Les Cardwell (3/24/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (3/24/2010)
I'd like to see this start going, though I think we need a forum, and a long debate on the PASS site. We probably also need someone(s) to build a summary every quarter of where we stand and issues.
I vote for --CELKO-- 😀
If you are doing a platform agnostic cert then Celko would work, but for a SQL Server specific cert, then he might not be the best rep.
If your doing a mostly platform agnostic but will use platform specific cert.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 24, 2010 at 11:19 am
Jack Corbett (3/24/2010)
Les Cardwell (3/24/2010)
If you are doing a platform agnostic cert then Celko would work, but for a SQL Server specific cert, then he might not be the best rep.
As much as possible, I only do standard SQL...and encourage others to come as close as possible as well. Makes it much easier on a number of levels, especially when one works across a half dozen vendor dbms platforms on any given day. 😎 I'm not much on vendor-specific certs for that, and a number of other reasons.
Dr. Les Cardwell, DCS-DSS
Enterprise Data Architect
Central Lincoln PUD
March 24, 2010 at 11:35 am
Les Cardwell (3/24/2010)
Jack Corbett (3/24/2010)
Les Cardwell (3/24/2010)
If you are doing a platform agnostic cert then Celko would work, but for a SQL Server specific cert, then he might not be the best rep.
As much as possible, I only do standard SQL...and encourage others to come as close as possible as well. Makes it much easier on a number of levels, especially when one works across a half dozen vendor dbms platforms on any given day. 😎 I'm not much on vendor-specific certs for that, and a number of other reasons.
I work in a SQL Server shop, though a few of the products we use my use MySQL and SyBase (vendors provide all support, including backup and recoveries), so we tend to make the most of the products capabilities. If that means what we do isn't standard, than that's what it means.
Writing truely portable code is not always the most effecient. I find it is sometimes necessary to make use of the products full capabilities to meet our clients needs.
March 24, 2010 at 11:37 am
Les Cardwell (3/24/2010)
Jack Corbett (3/24/2010)
Les Cardwell (3/24/2010)
If you are doing a platform agnostic cert then Celko would work, but for a SQL Server specific cert, then he might not be the best rep.
As much as possible, I only do standard SQL...and encourage others to come as close as possible as well. Makes it much easier on a number of levels, especially when one works across a half dozen vendor dbms platforms on any given day. 😎 I'm not much on vendor-specific certs for that, and a number of other reasons.
I would think that might work for development, but administration of different platforms is very different, at least in my understanding. I have only been a DBA for SQL Server, while I have worked querying other RDBMS's. Even for development there are things you can do in SQL Server that help SQL Server build a better plan that would not be ANSI standard and to be an "expert" in T-SQL you'd need a specific cert.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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March 24, 2010 at 11:48 am
Jack Corbett (3/24/2010)
I would think that might work for development, but administration of different platforms is very different, at least in my understanding. I have only been a DBA for SQL Server, while I have worked querying other RDBMS's. Even for development there are things you can do in SQL Server that help SQL Server build a better plan that would not be ANSI standard and to be an "expert" in T-SQL you'd need a specific cert.
I agree with Jack and Lynn here. Being agnostic about SQL is not always the best method. There are plenty of Oracle features that will not work in SQL Server and vise versa. The features make it run better. Why buy a Porsche and then tune it down to a Pinto?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 24, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Jack Corbett (3/24/2010)
I would think that might work for development, but administration of different platforms is very different, at least in my understanding. I have only been a DBA for SQL Server, while I have worked querying other RDBMS's. Even for development there are things you can do in SQL Server that help SQL Server build a better plan that would not be ANSI standard and to be an "expert" in T-SQL you'd need a specific cert.
I agree with Lynn, Jack and Jason. But to add my 2 cents...
If a company invests in one vendor's RDBMS product, they expect to fully utilize it - they should get everything that they can out of it. If in the future they decide to switch to another vendor's RDBMS product, then they should fully expect to need invest in the porting of their existing code to work on the new platform. If you aren't using the product to it's fullest, by using that vendor's specific implementations, then you may be causing your company to have to spend more money later by switching to another product. Maybe using those vendor specific implementations would have met the needs without having to encur this expense.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
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