The Missing Certification

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The Missing Certification

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SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 1

Chris Morris-439714 (4/1/2010)
Paul White NZ (4/1/2010)
Chris Morris-439714 (4/1/2010)
I love these answers. Who needs a thumping great book?
You do, dear :laugh:
(private joke)
Oh doen't!

Oh, he did, John.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 2

Chris Morris-439714 (4/1/2010)
Oh doen't!

Sigh :rolleyes:

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

WayneS SSC Guru Points: 95460 More actions · Answer 3

Paul White NZ (4/1/2010)
They might be exactly the same thing IF (the execution plan specifies ordered:false to the storage engine) AND (the effective isolation level is read uncommitted OR a table lock is taken OR the data is read-only) AND (at least 64 pages must be read). Both would then result in an IAM-ordered scan, exactly as for a heap.
It is a brilliant question to ask.
edit: Incorporated Gus' point about read-only data

Paul, thanks for this! I knew that they were essentially the same, but I didn't know that they could actually be the same.

I think it is a pretty good question to ask... but I think I'd only use the results of it as a "tie-breaker", since I wouldn't expect very many to be able to answer it (though they should know that they are essentially the same). Sort of like "extra-credit" back in school. (Unless they could give an answer like what you have posted here.)

Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes

If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!

Links:
For better assistance in answering your questions
Performance Problems
Common date/time routines
Understanding and Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 4

WayneS (4/1/2010)
I think it is a pretty good question to ask... but I think I'd only use the results of it as a "tie-breaker", since I wouldn't expect very many to be able to answer it (though they should know that they are essentially the same). Sort of like "extra-credit" back in school.

I see your point, but whatever answer is given tells you something...it's a great technical question, I think.

(Unless they could give an answer like what you have posted here.)

Anyone giving an answer like that is clearly an insufferable nerd and of no practical use to anyone! :w00t:

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

WayneS SSC Guru Points: 95460 More actions · Answer 5

Paul White NZ (4/1/2010)
Anyone giving an answer like that is clearly an insufferable nerd and of no practical use to anyone! :w00t:

LOL!

Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes

If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!

Links:
For better assistance in answering your questions
Performance Problems
Common date/time routines
Understanding and Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 6

WayneS (4/1/2010)
Paul White NZ (4/1/2010)
Anyone giving an answer like that is clearly an insufferable nerd and of no practical use to anyone! :w00t:
LOL!

YES LOL.

Thanks for clarifying that for us Paul.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 7

CirquedeSQLeil (4/1/2010)
Thanks for clarifying that for us Paul.

No problem, and at least you all stopped talking about certification for a while 🙂

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

Michael Meierruth SSChampion Points: 10051 More actions · Answer 8

Paul White NZ (4/1/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/1/2010)
Thanks for clarifying that for us Paul.
No problem, and at least you all stopped talking about certification for a while 🙂

I stopped after someone asked for my MCIPT number and I had no answer.

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 9

Michael Meierruth (4/1/2010)
Paul White NZ (4/1/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/1/2010)
Thanks for clarifying that for us Paul.
No problem, and at least you all stopped talking about certification for a while 🙂
I stopped after someone asked for my MCIPT number and I had no answer.

We've moved past that. Excluding people that are not certified is not productive to the conversation. It is likely more important to hear the comments of those not certified than those that are. There probably some very good reasons why somebody has not certified and knowing what they would change in the program to encourage them being certified is highly useful.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

WayneS SSC Guru Points: 95460 More actions · Answer 10

dma-669038 (3/30/2010)
I am writing to Kevin Kline tonight to ask for input on the previous attempt that Gail mentioned. Am going to copy Lynn but if anyone else wants to be copied let me know. Perhaps we can take the thread to a limited member thread, not sure if that is possible here or elsewhere.

By chance have you heard back from Kevin yet?

Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes

If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!

Links:
For better assistance in answering your questions
Performance Problems
Common date/time routines
Understanding and Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2

WayneS SSC Guru Points: 95460 More actions · Answer 11

CirquedeSQLeil (3/30/2010)
If any are interested, I posted my blog on the topic. A greater bit of depth needs to be done with the topic. I figure this is a starting point as far as the blog is concerned.

I've been reviewing this thread, and Jason's blog again. I think this this blog is an excellent summary of what we've hashed out so far.

So, how do we proceed from here? Do we start expanding upon the skills that should be covered in the exam? How do document time-in-service? What kinds of labs to perform?

I suggest that we tackle one item at a time. But let's work on making some progress... this thread is starting to turn into a water-cooler. (Nothing wrong with having one, but let's try to keep it out of this one.)

Open for suggestions on how to proceed...

Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes

If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!

Links:
For better assistance in answering your questions
Performance Problems
Common date/time routines
Understanding and Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2

Michael Meierruth SSChampion Points: 10051 More actions · Answer 12

CirquedeSQLeil (4/1/2010)
Michael Meierruth (4/1/2010)
Paul White NZ (4/1/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/1/2010)
Thanks for clarifying that for us Paul.
No problem, and at least you all stopped talking about certification for a while 🙂
I stopped after someone asked for my MCIPT number and I had no answer.
We've moved past that. Excluding people that are not certified is not productive to the conversation. It is likely more important to hear the comments of those not certified than those that are. There probably some very good reasons why somebody has not certified and knowing what they would change in the program to encourage them being certified is highly useful.

So what was the purpose of this discussion on 'table scan vs clustered index scan'. Do you think this is something useful to put on the MCJ exam?:-P

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 13

Michael Meierruth (4/1/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/1/2010)
Michael Meierruth (4/1/2010)
Paul White NZ (4/1/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/1/2010)
Thanks for clarifying that for us Paul.
No problem, and at least you all stopped talking about certification for a while 🙂
I stopped after someone asked for my MCIPT number and I had no answer.
We've moved past that. Excluding people that are not certified is not productive to the conversation. It is likely more important to hear the comments of those not certified than those that are. There probably some very good reasons why somebody has not certified and knowing what they would change in the program to encourage them being certified is highly useful.
So what was the purpose of this discussion on 'table scan vs clustered index scan'. Do you think this is something useful to put on the MCJ exam?:-P

WaterCooler. It stemmed from some Interview questions that were asked of Certificate Holding applicants.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 14

WayneS (4/1/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/30/2010)
If any are interested, I posted my blog on the topic. A greater bit of depth needs to be done with the topic. I figure this is a starting point as far as the blog is concerned.
I've been reviewing this thread, and Jason's blog again. I think this this blog is an excellent summary of what we've hashed out so far.
So, how do we proceed from here? Do we start expanding upon the skills that should be covered in the exam? How do document time-in-service? What kinds of labs to perform?
I suggest that we tackle one item at a time. But let's work on making some progress... this thread is starting to turn into a water-cooler. (Nothing wrong with having one, but let's try to keep it out of this one.)
Open for suggestions on how to proceed...

Let's tackle one at a time.

Let's tackle the most controversial first and get that out of the way. Time in Service seems most controversial and can probably lead to some talking points for the remaining items.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

dma-669038 SSCrazy Points: 2773 More actions · Answer 15

WayneS (4/1/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/30/2010)
If any are interested, I posted my blog on the topic. A greater bit of depth needs to be done with the topic. I figure this is a starting point as far as the blog is concerned.
I've been reviewing this thread, and Jason's blog again. I think this this blog is an excellent summary of what we've hashed out so far.
So, how do we proceed from here? Do we start expanding upon the skills that should be covered in the exam? How do document time-in-service? What kinds of labs to perform?
I suggest that we tackle one item at a time. But let's work on making some progress... this thread is starting to turn into a water-cooler. (Nothing wrong with having one, but let's try to keep it out of this one.)
Open for suggestions on how to proceed...

Wayne, I would very much like to hear more of how to evaluate time in service. I beileve it is too important to disregard completely. I believe the PMP way of evaluating it (clear documentation of projects with company approval) is a good place to start atleast.