July 22, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Revenant (7/22/2011)
SQLRNNR (7/22/2011)
. . . It also doesn't hurt to try to expand the market favorably since many employers try to expand it to the bottom end of that curve.... and usually they get what they pay for.
True
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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July 22, 2011 at 2:52 pm
Revenant (7/22/2011)
SQLRNNR (7/22/2011)
. . . It also doesn't hurt to try to expand the market favorably since many employers try to expand it to the bottom end of that curve.... and usually they get what they pay for.
Usually might be a stretch.
I've known many excellent technical people who are very bad at negotiating on their own behalf and don't realize their market value.
And I've known some people at the other end of the spectrum who are very good at squeezing every last popular dollar a company is willing to pay.
July 22, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Nevyn (7/22/2011)
Revenant (7/22/2011)
SQLRNNR (7/22/2011)
. . . It also doesn't hurt to try to expand the market favorably since many employers try to expand it to the bottom end of that curve.... and usually they get what they pay for.
Usually might be a stretch.
I've known many excellent technical people who are very bad at negotiating on their own behalf and don't realize their market value.
And I've known some people at the other end of the spectrum who are very good at squeezing every last popular dollar a company is willing to pay.
I was harping on Jason's "many employers try to expand it," meaning that they are pressing the candidate to accept a lower salary. "Bad at negotiating" is IMO a different kettle of fish.
July 22, 2011 at 4:15 pm
Revenant (7/22/2011)
Nevyn (7/22/2011)
Revenant (7/22/2011)
SQLRNNR (7/22/2011)
. . . It also doesn't hurt to try to expand the market favorably since many employers try to expand it to the bottom end of that curve.... and usually they get what they pay for.
Usually might be a stretch.
I've known many excellent technical people who are very bad at negotiating on their own behalf and don't realize their market value.
And I've known some people at the other end of the spectrum who are very good at squeezing every last popular dollar a company is willing to pay.
I was harping on Jason's "many employers try to expand it," meaning that they are pressing the candidate to accept a lower salary. "Bad at negotiating" is IMO a different kettle of fish.
"Get what they pay for" seemed to me to imply that they end up hiring an inferior worker because of it.
And I was just pointing out that a lot of very good workers will end up accepting those lowball offers.
July 22, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Nevyn (7/22/2011)
Revenant (7/22/2011)
Nevyn (7/22/2011)
Revenant (7/22/2011)
SQLRNNR (7/22/2011)
. . . It also doesn't hurt to try to expand the market favorably since many employers try to expand it to the bottom end of that curve.... and usually they get what they pay for.
Usually might be a stretch.
I've known many excellent technical people who are very bad at negotiating on their own behalf and don't realize their market value.
And I've known some people at the other end of the spectrum who are very good at squeezing every last popular dollar a company is willing to pay.
I was harping on Jason's "many employers try to expand it," meaning that they are pressing the candidate to accept a lower salary. "Bad at negotiating" is IMO a different kettle of fish.
"Get what they pay for" seemed to me to imply that they end up hiring an inferior worker because of it.
And I was just pointing out that a lot of very good workers will end up accepting those lowball offers.
This would be probably worth a sociological study. I am lucky in that the company I work for pays at least fair salaries. Come to thinking of that, it is probably one of significant differences between winners and losers.
July 22, 2011 at 5:20 pm
I am lucky in that the company I work for pays at least fair salaries. <<
Yes, me too. That is hugely important for me. I have been well paid in other companies where others were paid less than fair and it is not a pleasant environment by any stretch of imagination. Especially when they know you make better than they do.
July 23, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Having conducted many interviews over time, I've found that people frequently misclassify themselves. I know many Developers (for example) that think they're Level 5 Client/Server Developers who should be earning six figures... and they're just not.
To wit... I've found that it's not so much what the market will bear, but rather how much the interviewer and HR can bear. 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
July 24, 2011 at 9:04 pm
In Australia, HAYS is the largest recruiting firm.
They are in a good position to provide an accurate salary survey which breaks down well across the IT sector.
July 25, 2011 at 8:26 am
It's also important to keep in mind what the cost-of-living index is in your area.
I make the national average for my experience, but I make a third again as much as that when I factor in cost-of-living index for the area I live in. I would need to at least double my pay to have the same lifestyle in any of the California metro areas.
So, yes, I do know where I sit with regards to average and median pay for my area, for the country I live in, and compared to the cost of my lifestyle. (There are reasons I'm only about a year away from being completely debt-free. One of the main ones is I pay attention to these factors.)
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July 25, 2011 at 9:22 am
GSquared (7/25/2011)
It's also important to keep in mind what the cost-of-living index is in your area.I make the national average for my experience, but I make a third again as much as that when I factor in cost-of-living index for the area I live in. I would need to at least double my pay to have the same lifestyle in any of the California metro areas.
So, yes, I do know where I sit with regards to average and median pay for my area, for the country I live in, and compared to the cost of my lifestyle. (There are reasons I'm only about a year away from being completely debt-free. One of the main ones is I pay attention to these factors.)
That's very cool, GSquared! I've done analysis like that when considering the possibility of a new position, such as cost of living, etc. However, I also think that I've missed out on potentially good situations because I over analyzed the new job/company/city/state.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
January 22, 2016 at 5:29 am
dma-669038 (7/22/2011)
...I have been well paid in other companies where others were paid less than fair and it is not a pleasant environment by any stretch of imagination...
Me too. Colleagues are often both understanding and bitter at the same time which leads to a bit of a mixed experience. Often the emotional response overcomes the logical one every now and again.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
January 22, 2016 at 5:31 am
GSquared (7/25/2011)
...There are reasons I'm only about a year away from being completely debt-free...
Beers on you now G2!!! 😛
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
January 22, 2016 at 5:54 am
...oh and I work freelance so clients try to pay as little as possible so I often have to turn down work as the recruiter knows that the "suitable for graduate" statement cannot match the job specs given (read as client expects to pay peanuts for decades of experience).
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
January 22, 2016 at 8:20 am
It pays to do a little looking around for yourself. I found out the recruiting firm was charging the company I worked for about $170K annualized. Yes $170K. I certainly wasn't making that and I was a contractor but still it really let me know how far off my assumptions were. I'm in a midsize company in the midwest.
January 22, 2016 at 9:36 am
There are a lot of IT departments who get some extra funding in their budget and then try to fill slots with warm bodies in an extremely short timeframe. Maybe a small percentage of these positions will ultimately lead to something but most end up as cannonfodder for a near future layoff or slowly fade into a corner. You have no leverage salarywise in that position.
However, if you're a linchpen person; that is if you're someone who has years of experiences, has a well rounded blend of development and administration skills, and your position is vital to the enterprise or organization, then you can earn significantly more than the street rate. To get there, you have to proactively manage your own career and be open not just to new technologies but also new employment opportunities.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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