March 31, 2008 at 9:32 am
I have just accepted a position and will be traveling 120 mile RT each day. My current vehicle is getting up there in age and will be replaced. I am not sure with what.
I am not a person that believes everything that Al Gore says about global warming. This article (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799-7583,00.html) demonstrates that with more data, from more sources, ie satellites, we start to see that all our climate models are wrong. So my interest in a prius is totally a financial decision.
I currently have a convertible which for most of the year is wonderful ride, but with gas here approaching $3.50 would like to reduce that bill if at all possible.
How many adults can you get in a prius comfortably? And when a Semi is coming up quick in your rear view mirror, can it get you up to freeway speed in a hurry?
March 31, 2008 at 9:34 am
Get the Kid a Harley!:cool:
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
March 31, 2008 at 9:39 am
problems with the the 'hydrogen' concept
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-03-12.html
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
March 31, 2008 at 9:53 am
bhovious (3/31/2008)
I was glad to see you qualify your preference for electric-only by recognizing that it only moves the pollution problem to the power grid. If we continue to burn fossil fuels to generate electricity, plugin vehicles are actually less efficient than just sticking with internal combustion engines. Biofuels don't help. Combustion is combustion, and whether its oil, coal, french fry grease, or gasohol, you still get carbon dioxide as a byproduct. People need to understand that.With that short rant out of the way, yeah its time to see the focus coming back around to smaller more efficient rides.
Time Magazine just did an interesting piece on how Biofuels are hurting a great deal. Not so much the Biofuel itself, but the fact that so much of the biofuel production is being done by clear-cutting forests (which are the primary "consumers" of CO2). So you still end up with CO2, but with vastly reduced abilities to deal with said CO2.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
March 31, 2008 at 10:13 am
Steve,
Your "realistic" savings calculated with the numbers you give are off by an order of magnitude -- should be $2,260, not the $21,259 in your e-mail.
On the bright side, the cost of money differential (versus van or sedan) is likely insignificant, possibly even negative, and the Prius depreciation is also very slow relative to the other vehicles.
-frank
March 31, 2008 at 10:24 am
bhovious (3/31/2008)
I was glad to see you qualify your preference for electric-only by recognizing that it only moves the pollution problem to the power grid. If we continue to burn fossil fuels to generate electricity, plugin vehicles are actually less efficient than just sticking with internal combustion engines. Biofuels don't help. Combustion is combustion, and whether its oil, coal, french fry grease, or gasohol, you still get carbon dioxide as a byproduct. People need to understand that.
There are two aspects to the efficiency argument: carbon dioxide generation and energy efficiency.
As to energy efficiency, the grid-powered vehicles are vastly more efficient than IC vehicles, even including the distribution and charging losses. Current IC engines are terrible efficiency-wise, and they burn a fuel (gasoline) that is terribly wasteful of the crude oil refinery feedstock. Powerplants that burn oil or natural gas (both relatively rare in the US) are vastly more efficient, and coal and nuclear improve even more in the efficiency realm.
As to carbon dioxide, the problem exists for both IC and electric-grid powered vehicles, but even here the grid is a win, as they are more energy efficient (burn less hydrocarbons to get the same energy), and they are open for the nuclear, hydro, geothermal, etc options.
The best vehicle option is probably a large battery with grid charging capability combined with some sort of very-efficient power plant (turbine) for mobile recharge. A vehicle like this would get extremely good mileage (80+), and offer grid recharge for the vast majority of driving. And no infrastructure changes are required, other than building more powerplants....
-frank
March 31, 2008 at 10:40 am
The Prius fits our family of 5 (6 ft, 6ft, 5' 10, 4' 6, and 4') fine. If we have all 5 of us in the car and a load of things like groceries, I can feel it drag a little. Not much, but a little. And it impacts fuel efficiency.
I took 2 kids skiing last weekend, dropped 2 snowboards and 1 set of kids skis inside the car with a bag of clothes and we did fine. It doesn't handle great in slippery surfaces, so be aware of that.
It has good pickup from stop thanks to the electric motors. I can usually pull away from a light quicker than most cars if I need to. The passing speed (50-70) isn't great, but it's not horrible. It feels like a 4 cylinder motor pushing hard to get the speed up from 50-60, so you have to be aware of that.
It was a bet and a gamble for us last year when we decided to get it. We have enjoyed it and thought it was a good investment looking back, especially for a commuter car. That 50mpg instead of 30mpg adds up as well, albeit not as quickly. We have lots of hills here and we still seem to do well. Check out http://www.priuschat.com if you're interested in one.
I'm not sold on climate change, but we thought the Prius was worth the investment from a financial point of view. It does feel good to have a lower carbon footprint on a daily basis and the kids like it. It gets them thinking about fuel, especially when they compare it to Mom's Cummins that gets 12mpg of diesel.
March 31, 2008 at 11:09 am
Thanks Steve
That was what I was hoping to hear. I dont know anyone who actually has one, and can never seem to really trust the sales guy. I will be checking them out.
BTW I would try a grid powered vehicle, if one were available.
Also, I do have a Harley, but its in the shop... Go figure.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks again
Rick
March 31, 2008 at 11:46 am
I have had a Honda Civic Hybrid for 4 or 5 years now. I'm not a car person, but for the first time in my life, I'm excited about my car. The enthusiasm has not diminished. It is a really fun ride. I love the quiet and peace on my body when the engine turns off at stop lights. I've never had any trouble passing people in town or on a highway. This car certainly has better acceleration than my old Dodge Shadow (which probably isn't saying much).
I consistently get low 40's mpg in the dead of winter and low 50's mpg in the summer. Lifetime average so far is 47.3 mpg.
I think the Prius is a cool car and I would seriously consider getting it the next time I need to buy a car. So, the following is not a put-down of the Prius. I simply had to choose between the Prius and the Civic in a single, unexpected weekend (ugly story). Here was the tipping points:
> Civic drives and looks more like a "regular" car. That may be a draw-back for others, but the "feel" of the drive was important to me. The civic accelerations and decelerations were more like a "normal" car. As for "looks", I don't care what the car looks like so much. But the clean design and placement of the dashboard was important to me. The Prius had/has? a dashboard in the center of the car and is a lot less "user-friendly"? (solely my one time, quick impression) than the Civic.
> Safety rating. One person pointed out to me (and I did not verify separately, so I don't know) that the Prius had a 3 star stafety rating, but the Civic had a 5 star, with everything including side-air bags and side steel bar as standard.
Just some thoughts for those considering buying a hybrid.
Gas mileage aside, the emissions that do come out of the Civic (and I presume the Prius) qualify as "low emissions". That's very important for me. More so than the financial gains. But for those people for whom this is solely a financial decision, here's to gas prices going up and up! (When I bought my car, the common wisdom was that an owner would either never regain the additional cost or would at most come-even at the end of the life of the car. All of that was based on gas costing much less. So, which direction do you think gas prices will go in the future? Thinking of the future might help people decide on the cost-effectiveness of a hybrid.)
April 3, 2008 at 3:51 pm
My wife and I had 2 primary reasons why we got a Prius recently - 1. My previous car died and it would have cost more then it was worth to get it running and 2. Gas prices as I drive 150 miles roundtirp and my wife drives 90 miles roundtrip each work day. So ultimately, both reasons point towards the financial aspect of it. (Of course, the money we hope to save on gas now has to go to a car payment :pinch: ).
However, one reason we have wanted one for awhile was the environmental aspect of it. Even though my single car may not contribute that much, I still feel that it does help. I would love to see more advancements like has been mentioned towards better fuel economy.
Ian.
"If you are going through hell, keep going."
-- Winston Churchill
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