March 30, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The March 2009 Car Update
March 31, 2009 at 3:51 am
This may come as a shock but "The auto industry" encompasses quite a bit more than just the Big 3. The main problem right now with non-US car makers - like Toyota - is that they have relied too heavily on the US car market. This is a market dominated by ugly, inefficient, and dangerous behemoths. That market has evaporated. Good riddance. GM (and maybe Chrysler) may not make it out of 2009 because they keep making cars nobody wants to buy. Trucks, maybe - but not cars. Why would I buy a Pontiac when I can buy a BMW? Why would I buy a Cadillac when I can buy a Mercedes?
Here in Sydney I see a few Chrysler 300C's around town and I think, "What an ugly piece of sh*t." Pair the AUD$55k-$75k price tag with $5/gal gasoline ($1.20/L for the other 6,200,000,000 people on this planet) feeding that 6.1L HEMI and it's an absolute joke. Looping this back into the world of IT, it's called "bloatware" 🙂
James Stover, McDBA
March 31, 2009 at 4:02 am
short-sited ??? Tsk Tsk!
March 31, 2009 at 4:50 am
GM Motors in England provided my Agila which is brill but small. It looks like it would go into the boot (trunk?) of one of those US cars! Why are US cars so big?
Madame Artois
March 31, 2009 at 6:26 am
What wrong with our auto industry?
Imagine its fifty years in the future and your son or daughter is a school teacher talking to a class about this past decade or two in the auto industry...
A student asks; "So you guys had the gas crisis of the 1970's, and then just 10 years after that debacle you were building huge SUVs, burning 2 to 3 times the average amount of gas?"
"Yes..." your child answers.
"And while the rest of the world was building economy cars and 'green' cars, Americas kept building and buying these beasts?" the child continues.
"Yes..." your child answers.
"And then gas went up again as every expert was warning it would, and Americans were still buying and driving these gas guzzlers?"
"Yes..." your child answers.
"They were not very bright back in your parents day, were they?"
"Yes..." your child answers.
Whats wrong with the auto industry? The same thing thats wrong with American car buyers who have about as much vision and focus on the future as Neville Chamberlain did when he arrived back in England touting "I believe it is peace in our time!" right before Mr. Hitler unleashed Hell on Earth.
The "problem" is not just the auto industry - its all of us. In a democracy, EVERY individual is either responsible or frivolous. America has enjoyed over 30 years of frivolity, and now, we are paying for it. We're getting not only just what we deserve, but exactly what we built by our own moronic lack of thinking long term.
March 31, 2009 at 6:29 am
The scale and inefficiency of our cars here in America has always floored me. Thus the reason i bought a 2006 Jetta TDI (Diesel.) Best i can figure is it is an inherent arrogance in all of us. We want the biggest meanest gas guzzling vehicle so we can say 'Look at me!' Same reason when you are standing at the Ice cream stand or in the line at a food cart some idiot will always drive past and rev his\her engine or break the tires loose to show their 'dominance.'
We need to start buying what we need not what will make us look like a jacka$$ 🙂 and we will alleviate a lot of strain on fuel sources as well as allow capitalism to function. The Auto industry should not be allowed to drive our buying habits. We should be driving their habits.
March 31, 2009 at 6:38 am
There already is a business model for leased community cars. ZipCar does this
March 31, 2009 at 6:41 am
GM didn't become the biggest car maker because they're idiots. They became the biggest because they were making what people wanted. The US public is fickle. In good times and when gas prices are low, they want big gas eating machines. When times get tough or when gas prices rise, they suddenly want to save money on gas. The US consumer looks forward not further than next week's paycheck. It is an extremely selfish animal. You can't stop on a dime and do a 180 when you're making automobiles.
March 31, 2009 at 6:46 am
Robert Hermsen (3/31/2009)
Perhaps it is just me but that sounds like a small attention-seeking child who requires a little instruction on how to conduct themselves.
Madame Artois
March 31, 2009 at 7:17 am
This is a much more complex issue and industry than most people realize. Unfortunately, there has become a general bias against the Big 3, and perception (currently unwarranted, based solely on ignorance) that their quality is poor, they make vehicles that 'nobody wants', and all they make is 'gas guzzlers'. Between the 3 of them they sold millions of vehicles last year - so it's ludicrous to say that they build vehicles that 'nobody wants'. Quality is another issue. Look at JD Powers surveys that polls actual owners of the vehicles, not the hacks at CR that give anything with Toyota or Honda a good recommendation whether they have tested it or not. Buick is currently on top of the quality rankings. Ever heard of CAFE? If a automotive corporation's average fuel economy for vehicles produced in a given year is lower than the standard for the year, the feds levy fines on them. Over the 10 year period 1995 to 2005 the feds took in $640 million. Of that, over $500 million came from just 3 companies - BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. They didn't care about fuel efficiency or our government regulations - they just paid the fines (while tacking it onto the sticker price). But all the media crows about is the GM and Ford 'gas guzzlers'. But now that consumer awareness is higher about conspicuous consumption of fuel, they are rushing to put diesels and hybrids in everything so their well-heeled customers can boast about being 'green'. Yeah, just look at the buyers of Lexus 400h models at around $30K more than the regular model that get only a mile or two better mileage than the regular Lexus - which has mpg numbers similar to a pickup truck. Where's the value in that? One word: image.
So why do you see so many SUVs and trucks on the road? It's because that's exactly what consumers have wanted for the past 10 years. The auto industry builds them because that is what the consumer has been buying - and don't be so naive to think it's a Big 3 only issue. Look at the dozens of models that the Germans and Japanese have been producing. They include the heaviest, most expensive, and least efficient models you can buy - but for some reason they always get overlooked when it comes to pointing the finger at 'gas guzzlers'.
GM's new two-mode hybrid system in the full size SUVs and pickups (BTW that was an R&D joint venture with Chrysler and BMW) has the potential to save vastly more fuel per year in the US than all the tiny little poor-driving Priuses on the planet. Why? Because with full size Ford and GM pickup trucks being the number 1 and number 2 best sellers annually for decades, if you can achieve a 40% increase in efficiency in that segment, the country could collectively save vastly more fuel per year than having a million drivers of cars that get 25 or 30 mpg getting into Priuses (as an example). There are probably 200 full size pickups on the road today for every Prius. I however, do not want to drive an underpowered, ill-handling little suppository like the Prius - and most other folks don't either (the new Prius plant has been put on hold due to lack of sales). Vastly more SUVs are sold than the high mileage small cars, and they need to be made more efficient, and the two-mode hybrid system is a great way to do it. They get mid 20s real-world city mileage and can still pull 6000+ pound trailers. A lot of folks need towing capability and cargo capacity, and now you can have those capabilities without having to live with 10 mpg city numbers.
As to the question posted about why would you buy a Pontiac rather than a BMW? Well I'm amazed that that would even be asked. A Pontiac G8 GT stacks up very well against a BMW 5 series that costs nearly double. Most people don't have an extra $20-30 thousand dollars to throw around these days for a car that will cost more to buy, more to insure, and more to maintain & repair once it is out of warranty (I have owned BMWs - I know!). A Cadillac over a Mercedes? The Cadillac CTS was Car of the Year last year - not Mercedes. Plus, to me, the CTS styling is far better than the rather bland styling on a comparably-priced Mercedes model. An Mercedes quality has been severely lacking as of late.
As a closing comment, if we really wanted to save gas - right now, we could all start driving more intelligently. Coast more towards those red lights and stop signs, do not accelerate as hard, don't idle the engine outside of school for 15 minutes waiting for you child, stop circling the mall parking lot looking for that close parking spot so you can go into Ballys to work out, etc, etc,. And give the Big 3 a chance. Actually drive them rather than just badmouth them - they all make some very good vehicles. They are an integral part of our economy. They did not cause the economic crisis - they were just one of the first industries to get battered by the credit crunch because almost everyone that buys a car needs credit that the banks and Wall street screwed up. Almost every auto company worldwide has seen their sales drop and is getting government help right now, and in many cases they have been getting it for years in the form of national health care, subsidized R&D, and in some cases questionable and/or illegal trade practices and currency manipulation.
BTW - I am not an employee of the Big 3, nor is anyone in my family. I have been an auto enthusiast for decades (owned dozens of cars including models from the Big 3, Fiat, BMW, Lotus, Toyota, Acura, Honda) that has stayed informed, and tried to support local and national business when the product is right. I can buy Australian or Chilean wine for less than a comparable California or Washington St. variety, but I would prefer my dollars to stay circulating in our economy. In the past several years, the models, on average, coming out of the Big 3, have gotten much better in all areas and deserve consideration from the buying public - contrary to what you hear from the no-nothing politicians and parts of the media.
March 31, 2009 at 7:24 am
Imagine its fifty years in the future and your son or daughter is a school teacher talking to a class about this past decade or two in the auto industry...
A student asks; "So you guys had the gas crisis of the 1970's, and then just 10 years after that debacle you were building huge SUVs, burning 2 to 3 times the average amount of gas?"
"Yes..." your child answers.
Point of fact - today's full size SUVs and pickups get much better mileage than cars of the late 60/early 70s. My 1966 Mustang with a 289 V8 (small by the standards of the 60s) got 16mpg on the highway - with premium gas. My 2004 Dodge Durango HEMI SUV got 20 mpg on the highway - and weighted twice as much!
March 31, 2009 at 7:47 am
😎 The Prius is good at 48mpg. But imagine an electric car powered by the sun from solar panels atop your roof. (And see the video "Who Killed the Electric Car?").
Reduce, reuse, recycle, and go green. Therein lies our future (if we survive the excesses of our past!).
March 31, 2009 at 7:54 am
My wife and I own a 2006 Ford Taurus and a 1999 Mazda Protege. They are both good cars.
The Protege gets about 27 mpg city, close to 50 highway. The Taurus gets 18 city, 23 highway. On the other hand, the Taurus is a slightly bigger vehicle, and is considerably more comfortable to sit in for long drives. I have long legs, and the Protege causes muscle cramps if I have to sit in it for more than about half an hour, while the Taurus does not cause that effect. So, I pay a premium for the ability to get out of the car and walk without pain. (Yeah, yeah, I'm showing my age on that one.)
One of the main reasons American cars are "so big" is because it's more comfortable to sit in them that way. I personally don't like the really big cars, SUVs, large trucks, etc., because it feels like I've got all the maneuvarability of an aircraft carrier. My mother's big Buick, for example, takes FOREVER to come to a stop, just because it has so much mass. But so far as comfort goes, those big vehicles just can't be beat. But my Taurus is a good compromise. Not quite as comfortable as something bigger, but comfortable enough, and considerably more nimble than the bigger vehicles.
To a lot of people, that matters more than the cost of the fuel.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 31, 2009 at 7:55 am
I agree electric is the way to go - I am on the list to get the upcoming Chevrolet Volt.
As to the movie, the director has already recanted much of that movie as bad/biased/incorrect information. If you really dig into the situation, you will see that California CARB had a lot to do with ending that program. At the cost of the extreme technology that went into the EV-1, the car could never have garnered more than a handful of buyers and was not viable for mass production. They could not be sold due to warranty/safety/liability concerns - all these driven by the government and blood-sucking liability lawyers, which is why they were destroyed. Once again, if you do the research, you will find that the Japanese automakers had electric vehicles in CA for that period of time also, once again mandated by CARB, and they killed off their programs immediately after CARB changed the rules just like GM did - but without all the negative publicity.
March 31, 2009 at 8:01 am
S Hodkinson (3/31/2009)
Robert Hermsen (3/31/2009)
Same reason when you are standing at the Ice cream stand or in the line at a food cart some idiot will always drive past and rev his\her engine or break the tires loose to show their 'dominance.'Perhaps it is just me but that sounds like a small attention-seeking child who requires a little instruction on how to conduct themselves.
yep... small attention-seeking 16-40+ year old. 🙂
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