January 22, 2019 at 6:29 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 12:45 PMAs much as I think everyone on GMT/UTC would make sense, it's a hard cultural adjustment. Would I want to get up at 2pm and go to bed at 5am? I could, but it would mean that the evening would be a new day, which would be hard for humans to adjust to.I'll settle for removing DST for now.
Like I said, it would take a generation for it to work. No different than America changing to metric, it just needs to become the new standard and us old timers just have to deal with it...though I think the metric switch would be easier than the GMT switch. Ancient proverb, "The first generation plants the tree, the future generations enjoy the shade."
January 23, 2019 at 9:56 am
you've clearly not worked shifts then
January 23, 2019 at 1:52 pm
djackson 22568 - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 1:51 PMIf you are responding to me, that isn't what i meant. I do agree with you, i would not want to do that either.
There is no reason, however, why systems can't store time in GMT/UTC, but SHOW time in the current format. For example, the developers assigned to windows managed to get that right (although they clearly have other issues!) and are able to show currency and other items correctly based on location. Java developers managed to handle the adjustment to when DST takes effect and get it right (if only they had some understanding of security...). Even adobe has done some good things. So when we are talking about an industry that arguably has the greatest (or one of) responsibility to do things right, and they can't handle time changes and won't use something that works, well, that is extremely frustrating.
Not responding to you, but I agree. The worst thing ever in CS was storing datetimes in local values. From the beginning all OSes and other data storage platforms should have worked in UTC and then had display settings.
February 6, 2019 at 10:43 am
It seems DST lingers because it's supposed to save energy. There's been lots of debate on this, and the most recent information I've read is that it's likely in our modern society that it doesn't save enough, any more, to make it worthwhile; and may even be a net energy cost.
It's not often realized that your position in the time zone dramatically affects your daily experience, and your DST experience as well. Standard time is "correct" only if you're in the "center" of the time zone. It's particularly noticeable in wide time zones, like US Central TIme. It's "center" is near Chicago and New Orleans. People in the westernmost parts of Central already have, effectively, much of DST year round. For instance, in my location, I'm so far west that standard time is 47 minutes behind solar time, so we already have 47 extra minutes of daylight every day of the year! Adding DST to that in the summer can be great for certain outdoor activities, or if you're trying to get home before dark, but is the bane of, for instance, skygazers and drive-in theaters. It's so extreme in El Paso that they split from the rest of Texas and are in Mountain Time. A similar effect occurs in Arizona, which is essentially why they don't do DST at all. Probably the same goes for some other states that have opted out.
So I would not mind if DST went away. Certainly with the modern pervasiveness of computers, it can be a real hassle. (Although we still have Leap Seconds to deal with, on occasion.)
P.S. It's not "daylight savingS time," but "daylight saving time" (no S).
February 8, 2019 at 7:25 am
wodom - Wednesday, February 6, 2019 10:43 AMIt seems DST lingers because it's supposed to save energy.
A lot of parents appreciate it because it creates more morning daylight for children walking to school. Of course, that's all relative, as you've pointed out, based on your position to the center of the time zone.
February 13, 2019 at 4:46 am
The nonsense of confusion around daylight saving was really brought home to me yesterday. I got an invite to a webinar with a start time given in both BST and CEST (British & Central European Summer Time respectively). The problem is it is at the start of March when we will still be in GMT! So I am now trying to find out when it actually starts!
A mention was made of being in the middle of a rime zone. There is also a difference between north and south with southern England having around 90 minutes more daylight than northern Scotland during December. I quite like the idea recently mooted to set the clocks midway between GMT and BST, and leave them there forever!
February 18, 2019 at 9:45 am
thisisfutile - Friday, February 8, 2019 7:25 AMwodom - Wednesday, February 6, 2019 10:43 AMIt seems DST lingers because it's supposed to save energy.
A lot of parents appreciate it because it creates more morning daylight for children walking to school. Of course, that's all relative, as you've pointed out, based on your position to the center of the time zone.
Actually it's the other way around. DST saves daylight in the evening, and steals it from the morning. When the U.S. was in energy-crisis mode in the 70s, during the Carter administration, for a short time the whole country went to year-round DST in an (apparently misguided) attempt to save even more energy. During the winter, a few school children were struck by cars and killed on the way to school in the morning, partly because it was dark. So parents will appreciate standard time, not DST, for school mornings.
On the other side of the coin, part of the argument for extending DST to the first Sunday in November, several years ago, was that there would be more light (and safety) for kids to go trick-or-treating on Halloween.
February 18, 2019 at 11:29 am
wodom - Monday, February 18, 2019 9:45 AMActually it's the other way around. DST saves daylight in the evening, and steals it from the morning. When the U.S. was in energy-crisis mode in the 70s, during the Carter administration, for a short time the whole country went to year-round DST in an (apparently misguided) attempt to save even more energy. During the winter, a few school children were struck by cars and killed on the way to school in the morning, partly because it was dark. So parents will appreciate standard time, not DST, for school mornings.
On the other side of the coin, part of the argument for extending DST to the first Sunday in November, several years ago, was that there would be more light (and safety) for kids to go trick-or-treating on Halloween.
Right you are. I had to look up a graphic to make sense of it. I've always had it in my head that it was helping the morning sunlight too.
http://thumbnails-visually.netdna-ssl.com/daylight-saving-time-explained_5096f7937aee4_w1500.png
I'd delete my original post if I could, but alas, my stupidity is immortalized on the interwebs.
February 18, 2019 at 5:54 pm
Actually it's the other way around. DST saves daylight in the evening, and steals it from the morning
I'm glad someone else understands this. I've asked people if they'd prefer to have the sunlight at 5 am when they are asleep or 8 pm when they are awake. However, it is a fair point that a lot can depend on where you live within the time zone. I live towards the back end of the eastern time zone at about the 40th parallel. I can imagine those further south might have a different view.
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