November 13, 2018 at 9:08 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Linux CoC
November 14, 2018 at 5:11 am
I found the line “For the most part people are fairly well behaved”quite a damning statement. I’ve only been to UK conferences, a few SQL Saturdays and SQL BITS and never seen behaviour that I’d consider a problem. When there’s been technical problems, people (including me) have left sessions and spoken to the organisers about them, but I’ve not noticed any confrontation.
I’ve not seen a lot of what goes on behind the scenes, but even so, I’m surprised that there are as many problems as is being implied.
November 14, 2018 at 5:27 am
So, no more "Help me CAST(CONVERT()) my Tinyint to Bigint?" :Whistling: Joking aside, I didn't have the time to attend SQLPass this year myself however I'm aswell surprised as Simon that such things do happen and what could be done to prevent things like that.
November 14, 2018 at 6:16 am
"common framework where we can evaluate behavior"
Isn't that called the law?
November 14, 2018 at 8:43 am
Its been a few years since I've been to any conference, what with unemployment and now working for an organization that doesn't believe in sending any of their IT people anywhere, for anything. But hopefully I'll get a chance to attend a conference again. But the behaviors you've described here, Steve, are appalling to me. Every conference I've attended everyone I saw behaved well. The only wild behavior I ever experienced was when something new was announced from the podium that everyone was excited about. People would then stand and shout out their enthusiasm, but that's it. Sad that bad behavior has happened at conferences or that some people have felt threaten.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
November 14, 2018 at 8:57 am
stevescanlan - Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:16 AM"common framework where we can evaluate behavior"Isn't that called the law?
It's law for government. It's an agreement or framework or something else for non government systems.
November 14, 2018 at 9:00 am
So it's easy to be surprised by this if you don't see it, but it's also easy to be ignorant of behaviors that don't seem to be much to you.
I haven't seen poor behaviors during the day, but at night, when alcohol flows, I have seen people (mostly men) start to move towards a line that I'm uncomfortable with and flirt or pressure others (mostly women). More than a few have asked me to stick by them or escort them so nothing bad happens. Happy to help, sad it's needed, and a pain as I don't want to singly escort a women back, so I need to pull someone else with me.
It happens, and I am glad that more people and organizations are recognizing the need to require and enforce better behavior.
November 14, 2018 at 9:27 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Wednesday, November 14, 2018 9:00 AMSo it's easy to be surprised by this if you don't see it, but it's also easy to be ignorant of behaviors that don't seem to be much to you.I haven't seen poor behaviors during the day, but at night, when alcohol flows, I have seen people (mostly men) start to move towards a line that I'm uncomfortable with and flirt or pressure others (mostly women). More than a few have asked me to stick by them or escort them so nothing bad happens. Happy to help, sad it's needed, and a pain as I don't want to singly escort a women back, so I need to pull someone else with me.
It happens, and I am glad that more people and organizations are recognizing the need to require and enforce better behavior.
Ah, sorry, I didn't realise that's where the problem was. I'm no party-goer, so I've never stayed on in the evenings.
November 14, 2018 at 9:28 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Wednesday, November 14, 2018 9:00 AMI haven't seen poor behaviors during the day, but at night, when alcohol flows, I have seen people (mostly men) start to move towards a line that I'm uncomfortable with and flirt or pressure others (mostly women).
Steve, this will possibly get me banned from this site, but here goes. I've just about had enough of the current 'Me too' movement, and it's maybe time for us guys to start a 'You too' movement'. I'm just an old guy who remembers when things were different. What with current standards of female attire and deportment, my response has become 'Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it'.
I do see that you sort of acknowledge this with your inclusion of the comment 'mostly' (as regards the greater part or number). Isn't there a current TV spot that says 'We know a few things because we've seen a few things'. Until this situation gets realized, I can only say 'Get over it'.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
November 14, 2018 at 9:31 am
That might be the reason I never noticed something like that, I tend to raid the Hotel Bar in the evenings and last time I stayed at Olive8 I was the only one (known to me attending PASS) doing the good ole "maximize your cocktail input in the shortest time" before heading to sleep (which I will do again next time, sometimes you have to push the Garbage Collector Button yourself). During our local Chapter evening out I haven't noticed anything like that either. I didn't stay too long that evening when we went to the Gaming Center (which was asides the Welcome Cocktail thingy the only thing I remember back then being organized for all attendees) so I can't judge that. Actually, not sure if the "Networking" Meeting took place outside the Conference Center but I think not, it was just late in the evening.
So maybe someone's ignorance might be partly because some events aren't even that well communicated (or might be something I simply am not aware of PASS is doing these days) or he / she doesn't see this as paid holidays and prefers / has to do other stuff in the evening. And yes it's sad and in the case(s) you encountered definitely needed, though I agree that better behavior should be enforced. The question is how? Ban booze and have everyone give a sample of blood on a daily basis and those that fail have to leave? I would consider that booze is the main point in some of this behavior but I'm not sure how to tackle this. If it's a PASS organized evening out in the city you might ask everyone to have their badges visible at all times so you could at least Name people who did wrong but once you go somewhere with what? 50 - 3000 People and do not have such requirements in place I would not be able to even track down a single person afterwards, let alone the next morning.
November 14, 2018 at 10:03 am
..Certainly some people want the freedom to behave as they see fit, where they don't believe they are doing anything wrong. I understand that, but ultimately I also believe that it would be better to have a few people investigated or thrown out of a conference for no reason than have others suffer because they aren't believed ..
I'd feel safer having my teenage daughters attend a PASS conference than a sporting event or even a school field trip. In professional forums like workplaces or conferences, I'd expect there would be plenty of level headed witnesses who could offer an objective point of view for an alleged incident of bad behavior. The prospect of being confronted by one's peers, rather than dealing with it behind closed doors, should be a powerful disincentive for bullying or harassment.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 14, 2018 at 10:04 am
It's not just booze and it's not not something I have a solution for. In any size group, there will be people that behave poorly. Rather than create stringent rules, I'd rather have us deal with those that behave poorly. I think most of the current CoCs do this. Report something and then someone handles it.
I would also like to just ask others to be cognizant of issues and try to prevent things before they get out of hand.
November 14, 2018 at 10:05 am
Eric M Russell - Wednesday, November 14, 2018 10:03 AM..Certainly some people want the freedom to behave as they see fit, where they don't believe they are doing anything wrong. I understand that, but ultimately I also believe that it would be better to have a few people investigated or thrown out of a conference for no reason than have others suffer because they aren't believed ..
I'd feel safer having my teenage daughters attend a PASS conference than a sporting event or even a school field trip. In professional forums like workplaces or conferences, I'd expect there would be plenty of level headed witnesses who could offer an objective point of view for an alleged incident of bad behavior. The prospect of being confronted by one's peers, rather than dealing with it behind closed doors, should be a powerful disincentive for bullying or harassment.
Wish that last part were true. I think it mostly is, but too many times group mentality becomes a problem, especially in smaller groups.
I do think my daughter is safer at PASS than some other events.
November 14, 2018 at 10:06 am
skeleton567 - Wednesday, November 14, 2018 9:28 AMSteve, this will possibly get me banned from this site,.
Not banning you, and not going to discuss this. You have your right to an opinion, but I think your opening is a rather naive and poorly thought through statement.
November 14, 2018 at 10:13 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Wednesday, November 14, 2018 8:57 AMIt's law for government. It's an agreement or framework or something else for non government systems.
Are you saying that these conventions are taking place in a location that isn't covered by law?
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