April 14, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Craig Farrell (4/14/2011)
LutzM (4/14/2011)
Nachdem ich den Artikel und die Kommentare bzgl. der Grammatikfehler gelesen habe, habe ich mich entschieden, ab sofort nur noch in einer Sprache zu schreiben, bei der meine grammatikalische Fehlerquote mit an Sicherheit grenzender Wahrscheinlichkeit deutlich geringer ist als bei der Verwendung der englischen Sprache.Hierbei kann es zwar vorkommen, daß der Inhalt meiner zukünftigen Antworten von einigen anderen Lesern auf Grund der Sprachbarriere nicht verstanden wird. Aber das Wichtigste ist ja offensichtlich die korrekte Grammatik.
Danke, fname lname-1111520.
:-D:-D:-D
PS: Translation available upon request. 😛
Bwaaa haa haa... Thanks Lutz. Btw, Google Translate chewed that to pieces, but I got the drift. 🙂
Let's see if I can do it better than Google:
After reading the article (including the grammar related comments) I decided from now on only to use a language where my grammar error rate with the utmost probability will be significantly lower than if I would continue to post in English.
It may occur that the content of my future replies will not be understandable to some readers due to a language barrier. But, obviously, a correct grammar is most important.
Thank you, fname lname-1111520.
April 14, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Lutz, thanks for the laughs!
Craig, very interesting article. I really appreciated the way you "translated" the job requirements. I have frequently seen the type of jobs where the poster asks for everything including the kitchen sink. Due to these type of job ads, I was taught that if you can satisfy between 70% and 80% of the job requirements you have a reasonable chance at getting an interview.
Cheers!
Nicole Bowman
Nothing is forever.
April 15, 2011 at 1:55 am
Thanks for the article - it's always good to get opinions like this.
Sadly, you left out the old Bait n Switch. This happened to me a few years ago when I attended an interview for a SQL Dev with some DBA chores. After fielding too many questions about Oracle with not a SQL Server question to be seen I actually thought I was in the wrong interview.
When I raised this the interviewer replied: "We find it hard to get decent Oracle people. It's better for us to get in good SQL Server people and cross train them."
The agent was appalled when I complained, and we both laughed when I didn't get the job because I "didn't have enough Oracle experience."
Steve.
April 15, 2011 at 2:10 am
Fal (4/15/2011)
Thanks for the article - it's always good to get opinions like this.Sadly, you left out the old Bait n Switch. This happened to me a few years ago when I attended an interview for a SQL Dev with some DBA chores. After fielding too many questions about Oracle with not a SQL Server question to be seen I actually thought I was in the wrong interview.
When I raised this the interviewer replied: "We find it hard to get decent Oracle people. It's better for us to get in good SQL Server people and cross train them."
The agent was appalled when I complained, and we both laughed when I didn't get the job because I "didn't have enough Oracle experience."
Hey Steve.
Unfortunately, you can't detect a bait and switch from the posting. There's any number of silly thing recruiters will do that are practically undetectable from the public description. These are things you just can't help sometimes, but luckily what you ran into tends to be rare, at least from my experience. They happen, but... well... you just roll with some of the punches.
Thanks for the appreciation, however. 🙂
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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April 15, 2011 at 2:41 am
Fal (4/15/2011)
Thanks for the article - it's always good to get opinions like this.Sadly, you left out the old Bait n Switch. This happened to me a few years ago when I attended an interview for a SQL Dev with some DBA chores. After fielding too many questions about Oracle with not a SQL Server question to be seen I actually thought I was in the wrong interview.
When I raised this the interviewer replied: "We find it hard to get decent Oracle people. It's better for us to get in good SQL Server people and cross train them."
The agent was appalled when I complained, and we both laughed when I didn't get the job because I "didn't have enough Oracle experience."
I've had the recruiting agent do that to me. He added a few more keywords to my CV (project management, business analysis) and sent it on to a company. Fortunately I questioned the job description he sent me, didn't find out in the interview.
I told him that if he was going to play stupid tricks like that he could play them on other people, and that he must never call me again.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
April 15, 2011 at 6:51 am
LutzM (4/14/2011)
Nachdem ich den Artikel und die Kommentare bzgl. der Grammatikfehler gelesen habe, habe ich mich entschieden, ab sofort nur noch in einer Sprache zu schreiben, bei der meine grammatikalische Fehlerquote mit an Sicherheit grenzender Wahrscheinlichkeit deutlich geringer ist als bei der Verwendung der englischen Sprache.
Das wäre mir unsinn. Niemand, der SSC liest, würde mich verstehen, wenn ich meine eigene Sprache schrieb. :hehe:
Tom
April 15, 2011 at 7:39 am
Riskworks (4/14/2011)
Additionally, more and more I see references to the front-end languages used in the development shop. Experience with Cold Fusion desired..... Knowledge of Java perferred..... space capsule design exper.... I'm exagerating now but you get the point.John
To follow up on this, when asked what experience I had in ColdFusion, despite nothing on my res, I said that I had none. Later in the interview when asked what my weaknesses were I said my lack of experience in ColdFusion. Hey it's their game.
John A. Byrnes
April 15, 2011 at 8:02 am
Riskworks (4/15/2011)
Riskworks (4/14/2011)
Additionally, more and more I see references to the front-end languages used in the development shop. Experience with Cold Fusion desired..... Knowledge of Java perferred..... space capsule design exper.... I'm exagerating now but you get the point.John
To follow up on this, when asked what experience I had in ColdFusion, despite nothing on my res, I said that I had none. Later in the interview when asked what my weaknesses were I said my lack of experience in ColdFusion. Hey it's their game.
Even within a single technology you find people asking for things they don't need and not asking for things they do. I can't count the number of times I've seen SSIS, SSAS and SSRS on a job req and when it comes time for the interview they aren't really sure what SSAS is and they don't use SSRS. Alternately you'll see a lot of reqs that don't mention that they use CLRs or C#, but they still think it is absolutely required.
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April 15, 2011 at 10:11 am
Craig Farrell (4/14/2011)
mohammed moinudheen (4/14/2011)
Craig, thank you very much for the article. This would be very helpful for most of us.I have seen many job postings which requires people knowledgebale in other database products as well like Oracle, Sybase etc.
These are usually two fold. In some cases, they're looking for someone who can help out the other DBAs with junior/mid type work. Somewhat common in a dual engine shop so you don't end up with different 'sides of the house'. The other times is when they already have split it into 'sides of the house' and they're looking for people with enough familiarity to connect to it with SSIS or other ETL methods. You'll usually have to read between the lines to know which of these they're looking for.
Would it be preferable for SQL Server professionals who are working as Administrators to start learning about adminstrating other database products (Oracle, DB2 etc) or should we start learning T-SQL development, SSRS etc.
My personal goal is not to know the entire mountain range but to be able to climb one peak well, so in that, I'm almost pure SQL Server. This is a risk I take, because if SQL Server ever loses popularity I'm in trouble. Knowing other products isn't as important usually as knowing good T-SQL and administrative tasks, such as SSRS security and setup. Once you're past those administrative needs to be able to support a very wide developer userbase, then I'd look into possibly learning another RDBMS.
I'd personally recommend MySQL if you're going to tackle a second one randomly. Anything free sells until they realize they're in over there heads. There's almost always jobs for MySQL contracting to clean up what someone else didn't do well, but realize there's not a ton of money in MySQL. If they were willing to spend a lot of money on that database, they probably wouldn't have selected a 'free' product.
Thank you Craig for very useful comments.
M&M
April 15, 2011 at 10:28 am
Tom.Thomson (4/15/2011)
LutzM (4/14/2011)
Nachdem ich den Artikel und die Kommentare bzgl. der Grammatikfehler gelesen habe, habe ich mich entschieden, ab sofort nur noch in einer Sprache zu schreiben, bei der meine grammatikalische Fehlerquote mit an Sicherheit grenzender Wahrscheinlichkeit deutlich geringer ist als bei der Verwendung der englischen Sprache.Das wäre mir unsinn. Niemand, der SSC liest, würde mich verstehen, wenn ich meine eigene Sprache schrieb. :hehe:
That's only partially true. People speaking your language (either as first or second language) would be able to read (and hopefully understand) what you wrote. As per "fname lname-1111520"s understanding it should not be your goal to try to reach as many people as possible with your valuable comments but to make sure your grammar is perfect.
I guess this person would consider the fact that you'd reach only a few percent of the SSC community as "collateral damage". :-P;-)
Question aside: where did you learn German? I'm impressed!
April 15, 2011 at 11:37 am
LutzM (4/15/2011)
Question aside: where did you learn German? I'm impressed!
I didn't think that was impressive, it is after all something very short and simple, no complexity or long words or difficult concepts.
Mostly I learnt German in high school (2 hours a week of lessons for 3 years, plus a lot of reading). But also I learnt it in Germany and in Austria on accassional visits. I had a couple of walking holidays in the Rhineland (around Koblenz, Bingen, Rüdesheim) when I was a teenager, had holidays in Vienna and in Steuraland in my early 20s, spent a week in München now and again (on work) in my 40s and early 50s and a day or two in Frankfurt, and was always interested in Classical music so heard much singing of German (music by Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Wagner, Weil) as well as picking up a lot of other German songs on my travels. Also found German was a useful language for communication in Jugoslavia (because I spoke no SerbCroat, and people where I was spoke no English or French) where I spent a few weeks once a long time ago (I think it was in 1968). As German was my fifth language (as well as Gaelic and English, I already had a fair amount of French and had been learning Latin for a year when I started on German) I didn't have the problem of expecting it to work like my first language.
Unfortunately I never became fluent, and still need a dictionary to read a novel in German (and needed one for a couple of the words in your comment).
Tom
April 18, 2011 at 8:11 am
this isn't a new thing, when i first left the army and was looking for a job i saw that all the listings want everything in the IT world. I always ignore it and apply for everything that interests me. a lot of the listings are fake and are just head hunters looking for resumes for their database. no one really reads resumes anymore. they scan them in and search for keywords for possible candidates. after HR/recruiter does the initial phone interview they forward it to the person who will do the real interview along with any opinions
April 18, 2011 at 11:30 am
alen teplitsky (4/18/2011)
this isn't a new thing, when i first left the army and was looking for a job i saw that all the listings want everything in the IT world. I always ignore it and apply for everything that interests me.
It's certainly one approach, but I dislike shotgunning my resume everywhere, personally. I haven't found it to be anywhere as near as effective.
a lot of the listings are fake and are just head hunters looking for resumes for their database. no one really reads resumes anymore.
I'm sorry but this is just inaccurate. No, they may not read the thousand of them that showed up. There is some major whittling going on if you end up with an unexpected volume of applicants to a position. Get down to the last fifty or sixty and I have found that most hiring managers tend to read the resume instead of just scan it at that point. Yes, you do need to get it past the gatekeepers though. Too many people apply for things they just can't do.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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April 18, 2011 at 1:39 pm
fname lname-1111520 (4/14/2011)
Craig Farrell (4/14/2011)
fname lname-1111520 (4/13/2011)
I get it: "then", "than", "there's", "there are". Stop reading (and I did), it can't be coherent.Huh? Could you specifically quote where you found this incoherent for those reasons? I fear you've confused the heck out of me here.
Edit: even stranger, that post was at 10:38 PM before the article released. wha?
I'm sorry to say there isn't a big enough facepalm emoticon for the current state of job advertising in our industry. You're competing with employers looking for the most bang for their buck, HR firms/departments who know as much about tech as most techies know about oil rig equipment, local laws regarding job duty requirements, Visa (not the credit card) Renewal laws, and consulting/hiring firms who know more buzzwords then technology. They've had more practice at this then you probably have, and it can be difficult figuring out what's good and what's not.
Let's review a concept I brought up in my previous article before we get started. For SQL Server, there's 5
"then" and "there's"... I didn't find it incoherent. I claimed "it can't be coherent". If I were reviewing resumes, you go in the Engrish pile.
Oh the irony of that last sentence!
Sorry, but the professional editor in me just can't help but point out that, "If I were reviewing resumes, you go in the Engrish pile." is grammatically incorrect. It should be "you'd" or "you would", at the very least. To be actually correct, it should be "yours would", since you presumably wouldn't actually be putting the person in that pile, but their résumé.
Also, you mispunctuated the sentence before that.
Very, very funny. I hope it was intentional. If not, change that to "very, very sad".
Craig: Good article. Considering the horrible grammatical, etc., errors in the quoted job postings, a few typos on your part just seemed to add flavor to the whole thing. Claim it was on purpose, to highlite that, and you're golden.
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April 18, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Thanks for the breakdown Craig.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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