The January 2009 Car Update
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GSquared (1/27/2009)
Scott Anderson (1/27/2009)
I'm still up in the air about all this hybrid stuff...I was at a dealer for car inspection and there was a Prius idling in the parking lot for over an hour. I went to a sales rep and mentioned it and he said they had to charge it. I guess you can't plug them in.
If you've got to let it idle to charge now and then, what's the point of having a hybrid?
Can you imagine a world where tens of thousands Prius's are in driveways idling away to charge thier batteries??....that's not saving our resources. I'd like to know if the MPG computer conveniently forgets idle time.
It all seems shady to me, like the hybrid is the bone the car companies throw to appease the environmentalists.
They are that. Creating the batteries and such for modern hybrids actually has more negative effect on the environment than the expected lifetime reduction in air pollution.
And I'm not talking about the replacement of the batteries, I'm talking about mining the metals, manufacting and shipping the batteries, etc.
There are plug-in kits for hybrids that avoid the idling thing. I don't believe they are in common use at this time.
And I suppose the metals mined for the engine block and battery of standard gas and diesel cars have no environmental effect? You are not thinking everything through.
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Ian - Is this the Diesel Fiesta? If so, then us poor Americans can't get that one as it is not being released here. Apparently no one wants to buy diesel here. 😉
Curious if that is the case. Thanks.
No, it's the petrol and that's in UK gallons. I'm not sure of the conversion factor between UK and US gallons.
As regards the car itself - it's very nice. Much more comfortable than our previous car. The only downsides are the lack of engine power (for those of us who like that sort of thing) and that the rear seats don't fold totally flat. Oh, and you get a tyre repair kit instead of a spare. Not much use if you get a blowout. It's good to drive though, nicely laid out controls. Slight snag - the aux cable for plugging in your mp3 player is just below the handbrake and you can easily pull out the cable when pulling the handbrake on.
It's just won "What Car - Car of the year 2009" here in the UK so it's worth looking at when it reaches the states.
There is no problem so great that it can not be solved by caffeine and chocolate. -
Steve Jones - Editor (1/27/2009)
...My drive from home to the grocery store is hilly, 10mi, but falling 4-500 ft in altitude. I can average 80mpg on that drive, which is mostly 40mph. The return trip drops to about 40mpg, mostly on the couple large climbs that go up 3-400 ft.
I am getting about 48mpg on average, but it is lower when temperatures are lower, sometimes as low as 42mpg. (My travel is generally on the flat, with low rises and dips.) When I go toward the upland valleys I experience the same loss in mpg you mention, but since I generally return the same day I get superior (50+) mileage on the way back, so it is a wash.
I did calculate all my costs for 2008 on my paid off Prius and got an average cost per mile of 22 cents. That includes insurance, gasoline, oil, service, and car washes. (During 2008 we had average gas prices locally that went up to more than $4 per gallon - currently it is about $2.10 per gallon.)
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jpowers (1/27/2009)
Steve Jones - Editor (1/27/2009)
...My drive from home to the grocery store is hilly, 10mi, but falling 4-500 ft in altitude. I can average 80mpg on that drive, which is mostly 40mph. The return trip drops to about 40mpg, mostly on the couple large climbs that go up 3-400 ft.
I am getting about 48mpg on average, but it is lower when temperatures are lower, sometimes as low as 42mpg. (My travel is generally on the flat, with low rises and dips.) When I go toward the upland valleys I experience the same loss in mpg you mention, but since I generally return the same day I get superior (50+) mileage on the way back, so it is a wash.
I did calculate all my costs for 2008 on my paid off Prius and got an average cost per mile of 22 cents. That includes insurance, gasoline, oil, service, and car washes. (During 2008 we had average gas prices locally that went up to more than $4 per gallon - currently it is about $2.10 per gallon.)
Oh, and the 22 cents per mile also included vehicle registration fees, and AAA Club membership.
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On a business trip once to North Dakota in the dead of winter, at the airport's car rental counter the clerk asked me if I'd like an extension cord for my car. My blank stare prompted her to smile and say "You're not from around here, are you?" I told her that I lived in southern California. She explained to me how people plug their cars in so the engines don't freeze, and that many parking lots have outlets for that purpose for each parking space.
Of course, she was right. That's exactly what I found, and exactly what I did too.
So at least we know that parts of the country are already electric-car friendly, at least if that means plugging in your car using a regular extension cord and outlet to recharge it (as opposed to idling).
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Hey, I plug in my tractor. Diesels have issues with cold temps, so many people around here plug theirs in regularly. Further north, I'm sure it's a habit.
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Why, must you post a car blog? Don't you know I am in the middle of a massive data conversion/migration? I think I established myself as a Prius hater, last time this topic came up and I still make no bones about hating them. However, I recently came across a car I think is doing everything right - the Honda FCX. A lot of people look down on Hydrogen fuel cells, because of the energy conversion ratio, however most of those arguments fail to say anything other than, "where do you think that energy is coming from". So, let me see if I can clarify.
1) Nuclear -- we all love to hate it, however in terms of energy conversion efficiency it is a bit hard to beat. The US stopped making nukes, while countries like France continued developing them. Nuclear has become more efficient and produces less waste, however it still produces waste that is hard to dispose of.
2) Wind -- Despite potentially making some species of birds extinct wind has a lot of potential. According to http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy06osti/39534.pdf we could make hydrogen processing completely grid independent.
3) Solar -- I am not as big a fan of solar solutions, due to relative efficiency per acre calculation, but nonetheless it is possible. http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2004/12/65936
4)Geo-thermal -- Currently most hydrogen fuel is extracted using thermal power, however thermal power is only about 40% efficient at best. However it could potentially be a passive non-waste producing source of energy.
In addition a lot of people will point out that Hydrogen will only work with subsidies, which is true. However most people don't seem realize how heavily subsidized the oil industry is. Beside wars that we may or may not have waged on the behalf of oil. Oil companies received low interest and often tax free loans for new construction, Research and Development is subsidized by the federal government, Oil exploration legal issues are handled by the US, Corporate income tax breaks, Petroleum taxes are the lowest of any US commodity, and the list goes on. The point being for any fuel to have competitive pricing vs. oil, it will have to be subsidized in some way. Hydrogen's main cost is the initial infrastructure, once that is developed the only research and development cost will be efficiency. Currently the best efficiency we have with electrolysis conversion is about 80-95%. While fuel cell efficiency sits around 50% without using any thermal capture. By using a process that captures the thermal energy, efficiencies have been shown to up 80+%.
Why is the FCX the way of the future? Because it fits in with our existing culture of going to a pump and filling up with fuel. It looks like a car and has all the space of a normal car, without batteries filling up the trunk. It weighs the same as a car. It drives like an electric vehicle, but you don't have to wonder about what all the strip mining, that is going on in Canada to provide the raw materials demanded by Prius's batteries, is doing to the environment. The car can be built from beginning to end in one factory. Currently the FCX gets around 200 miles to a tank, but expect that to improve if money is put towards this vehicle. I say death to Hybrid and all hail to the Hydrogen powered machines of the future. I didn't think it would be possible, within this decade, to produce a usable Hydrogen powered car; but I was wrong and I have never been happier about being wrong. I only hope Honda employs a policy of giving these away to celebs that is as aggressive as Toyota's was with the Prius. Because, let's face it, if people don't see idiots in the tabloids driving something, they are not going to want it.
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Just stop buying new cars and re-use what we have. There is a lot more involved than just MPG. How much oil/energy was used to make that Prius/HCX/FCX which will be scrapped in 7 years vs how much gas could have been made with the same amount of oil/energy? So now we have less LESS natural resources for future generations because you wanted to sleep better thinking you were doing good when you are potentially doing more harm. By simply re-using what we have we can turn the economy from conspicuous consumerism to a service oriented market where we pay people to provide services, which is more sustainable than always buying something new and throwing away our functioning but not as nice as the Jones' car.
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I'm not sold on hydrogen either, looks good on paper but still an energy hog to produce.
Actually, here in the US, hydrogen is generated from natural gas, so it's still using fossil fuels.
Air Products and Chemicals, Inc. uses steam and natural gas to to extract the hydrogen, I've seen it at a museum but it should be on thier website, apci.com or something.
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I'm OK with hydrogen, actually anything, but we should drive our cars with electric motors. Then we can use anything (oil, hydrogen, wind, nuclear, etc) to produce the electricity, either locally or remotely.
Reusing old cars, I love doing that. There was a time we had a 32 year old car, a 18 year old one, and a 3 year old one, all purchased used. I'm very much in favor of a smaller new car industry (we do need some new ones) and mostly old ones.
Dealers should be thinking along those lines, not pushing new ones so much.
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Scott Anderson (1/28/2009)
I'm not sold on hydrogen either, looks good on paper but still an energy hog to produce.Actually, here in the US, hydrogen is generated from natural gas, so it's still using fossil fuels.
Air Products and Chemicals, Inc. uses steam and natural gas to to extract the hydrogen, I've seen it at a museum but it should be on thier website, apci.com or something.
Good point Scott, even The Home Energy Station IV is using NG to produce hydrogen.
Matt, I don't agree that the FCX is the way of the future for the following reasons: Current Range of the car, lack of infrastructure for hydrogen, most fuel cells use expensive platinum, most hydrogen is made from NG, and the hydrogen tank limits trunk space. I'm sure there are other reasons, but these are the ones that I thought of quickly.
I think you need to pick the car that fits your needs and gets the best MPG that you can afford. Hydrogen might work in some areas, NG in others, and Electric Vehicles or Hybrid cars might be good for some and not others. Some people might not be able to afford these newer cars.
Last year when fuel prices were starting to rise, I learned about hypermiling. Hypermiling allowed me to save fuel and money by just changing the way I drive. Hypermiling is good if you want to save money, decrease your carbon foot print, or use less foreign oil. The best part of hypermiling is that the techniques can be used with any car. If you are interested check out this link: http://www.cleanmpg.com/cmps_index.php?page=hypermiling
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