The Great Uproar
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Wow, I cannot believe the controversy over the "How To Mess Up An Interview" piece that ran a couple days ago. The forums have been ablaze and I’ve gotten numerous emails over this article. Honestly while I don’t want to censor anyone, I start to wonder if I should have edited the tone a little more. However, I’m an advocate of free speech and I think that is one of those things that make the US a great place to live.
Censor: to examine (as a publication or film) in order to suppress or delete any contents considered objectionable (from Dictionary.com). I had a few people tell me that only the government can censor things, but that’s not what I read. I am a censor who performs censorship, usually on my own writings, but occasionally on others’ work. I did change a few things in this particular article, but not that much.
When I got the first draft of this and read it, I got the following:
- Practice for your interviews, preferably out loud, to prepare yourself for a smooth delivery. (I agree)
- Don’t mention your religious beliefs. (I agree)
- Play follow the leader with regards to profanity. (I disagree)
While I thought it was a bit of a rant, it wasn’t offensive to me, or too far off topic for me. I have had lots of people ask me how I handle interviews, and specifically if I ever curse. I won’t deny that I ever have, though to my current recollection I haven’t. Those who have worked with my know that I am prone to dropping a few four letter bombs at times, but definitely I am careful who and where I am, and rarely curse in front of women unless I know them well. That’s usually because women tend to be more offended, in my experience.
Tolerant - Inclined to tolerate the beliefs, practices, or traits of others; forbearing. See Synonyms at broad-minded. (again, dictionary.com). It seems most of the more vocal complaints I’ve read focused on the religion and cursing aspects of the article. There also have been complaints as to the “gay” reference, which I will apologize for. I missed that in my editing. I’ve even had a couple people ask that their accounts be deleted, which I did. Or rather deactivate them since removal would seriously mess up the forums. To me that shows a real lack of tolerance.
I’m not the final word on anything, except perhaps to my kids. And even then there’s someone nearby that has veto power . I don’t write my opinions here or in articles and expect that anyone would take it as “fact” or “expert advice” without reading the commentaries about the articles. That’s what the forums are for. Mr. McCown ranted a bit, and offended a few of you. I apologize for that and if you feel strongly, let me know. I read the forums, lots of them, and I will take the community’s opinion into account. The definition of offensive is not mine to make here, but everyone’s, and not everyone was offended.
I’d ask that you show a little tolerance for the opinions of others. Mr. McCown stands behind his remarks and they are public record, as are those remarks made by many of you that have been linked to the article. And I’ll be a little more careful about the rants that we publish. I’ll leave you with this quote from my wife, which we apply to many situations that we do not agree with.
It takes all kinds.
Steve Jones
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Nicely said.
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It only remains for PETA to call in with complaints about the canine references & women to protest about the off-colour humour - and Sean would've managed to insult as many groups as possible in one fell swoop...
Uproar's as good a word as any - though I'm going with hullabaloo & brouhaha - somehow these words with their onomatopoeic qualities seem to sum up the ensuing madness more succinctly in my mind!
As for those who asked that "their accounts be deleted" - that's so childish that I feel I've walked into a classroom full of squabbling kids! What purpose is their absence ever going to serve I wonder and who is going to make note of the point that they're seemingly making and learn from it ?!?!?!?!
At any rate, since there's definitely no pleasing everyone all of the time or even pleasing everyone some of the time it's a step well ahead if some people are pleased some of the time!
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
Hi Steve,
I think the following text from Sean's article on SSC should have been edited:
You're there to sell yourself, so keep the 'God bless you' and the 'Go with God', and the 'I'll pray for you' crap at home.
Religious expression is not appropriate in a job interview. The demeaning of religious expression is not appropriate for a SQL Server web site.
Thank you very much.
Respectfully,
Chuck Boyce
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I was going to post a long-ish reply but the site timed-out losing me all of my typing!
In short, gay has three meanings:
1 - gay n. happy, cheerful, "The holiday made us all feel gay and relaxed."
2 - gay n./adj. of or pertaining to homosexuals (often male), "He was so gay his hips sashayed as he minced up the street."
3 - gay vulg. adj. rubbish, pants, crap, an object of ridicule, "wearing big hooped earrings is so gay."
Gay (3) I have encountered most often in British school playgrounds. It should be noted that gay (1) gay (2) boys aren't necessarily gay (3) - they can be quite cool.
The point is, people who choose to be offended are choosing to use the definition which they find offensive - Christians included.
David
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I have to say that I agree with the use of "crap" in the article. The word "stuff" could just have easily been used and wouldn't have detracted from the author's meaning, nor would it have offended as many people. I only say "as many" because people would have found a way to be offended no matter what. I had actually refrained from posting in the original thread because I agree that it was taken way too far, but this was just my two cents.
The "gay" comment probably would've offended me a few years ago, but as it is, it just surprised me that that language was used in a professional article.
It made for some interesting reading in that thread, though! I'll give it that!
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Just a clarification... I just reread the above post and the first sentence makes me sound like I agree that "crap" should have been used. I do not, and I was basically agreeing with the above poster who did not like the word "crap". Should have been more clear, but I wasn't thinking. It's early in the morning.
Just clarifying before I get all these people yelling at me. 
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I thought Sean's article was fine and I made it a point to subscribe to both of his blogs after reading it; however, some things may have been misstated and, as a result, misunderstood. Upon re-reading the article I see how some people might have taken offense. My recommendation to anyone writing articles for SQL Server Central is to use proper grammar. When I write a paper for work or school I try to get it done a few days ahead of time and then I proof read it right before it is due. By stepping away from it for a while I can read it later with a less biased viewpoint. While Sean's article may have sounded the way he intended as he was writing/reading to himself, we do not get the intonations and such that he may have assumed. The best way to present an idea in print is to use proper grammar; despite the fact that the English language and its associated grammar rules are convoluted they still provide a framework for common understanding and should be respected as such. Conversational writing is fine in the discussion board but articles need to be a little more polished.
From a technical standpoint, Microsoft Word (and I am sure many other word processors) has a nice grammar and spelling checker built in. While SSC does not accept submissions in Word format, authors can still use it to write an article and then cut & paste the text into an HTML editor and add the appropriate markup.
[font="Tahoma"]Bryant E. Byrd, BSSE MCDBA MCAD[/font]
Business Intelligence Administrator
MSBI Administration Blog -
This is as much as a "The Rape of the Lock" situation, as it is anything. A good deal of the 'common scold' like activities was done by a few imaginary people as well, i think.
While Steve is supposed to fix all the wrongs in the world, can you make sure everone spells "colour" correctly, and it's "anyway" not "anyways", if at all. Further, "At any rate", Shushy you should know better.
Also, my Cd's skip sometimes and Outlook freezes, plus my hamburgers I order have sometiems come with onions on them, I do not like onions.
Nor green eggs with ham, Sam I am.
"I do not like them in a house.
I do not like them with a mouse.
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them anywhere."
One has to sign up to be a member of this forum, there are disclaimers. Could be expanded to include the following warning:
"Stupid things might be said by other people and possibly yourself. Try to have fun and keep your stick on the ice."
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"Stupid things might be said by other people and possibly yourself. Try to have fun and keep your stick on the ice."
They should sign on that one
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While I seldom agree with anything that GPF^.. has to say, I must admit that this one's a definite keeper!
I'm a little confused about "anyways" - have I said that somewhere ?!?! "At any rate" - it is indeed amazing how no one seems to be able to spell "colour" correctly or for that matter "aluminium"...
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
Or it's
, I miss that one a touch too often. Must be that second head I had added when my brain was split that won't proof the editorials.A few comments I've received:
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Personally, I found the article a breath of fresh air and support all opinions expressed 100%. Anyone offended by anything in the article about smart interview behavior needs to get a tolerance injection or find another line of work. Not only is the writer honest, but accurate as well. Would love to read more commentary by Mr. McCown.
My mother's favorite comment was also "Don't let the bastards get you down." She even had a coffee mug with that engraved, sitting on her desk at work (nursing supervisor) for the last 15 years of her life.
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Hi, Steve. Good commentary on the interview article and I agree with everything you said. I particularly liked your remarks regarding the swearing. I'm with you - don't...
I'm not sure that I comprehend getting peeved enough to deactivate their accounts, though.
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As a professional and a Christian, I was highly offended by this article. Up until now I enjoyed this web site immensely, however I am having second thoughts.
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I’d ask that you show a little tolerance for the opinions of others.
I did not reply to the initial thread yesterday as I wanted to see how things were today. It is interesting that 'tolerence' is being asked of the Christians (and homosexuals) who replied because they were offended and upset yet, the author and those taking up for him seem to have zero tolerence of Christians themselves based on the content of the article. What are we to believe? Sounds like a double standard.
Initially the article was pretty good but was a waste of time at the "YOUR NOT MY PRIEST" section. Basically from there on was nothing but an anti-Christian rant. The cussing portion was needless as you never know when you are being tested in an interview. Keep it clean and get the job.
the end
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This seems to be yet another example of the insane behaviour of intollerance to intollerance.
The funny thing is that the silliness about religion in Sean's article was probably the best advice in his article. To be more clear, I'd be far more critical of (i.e. don't agree with) his advice in general. But nobody's asking me.
For those of you who are heavily religious of any stripe, please feel free to dislike or hate me: For software development/design I have learned over the years to seriously avoid hiring anyone church going. In other roles/tasks I find benefit to strong believers, but for problem solving and design I have not ever come across any strong believers (i.e. heavily religious types) who do well in that role.
Now, like I said, go ahead and hate me or my attitude, but Sean's advice was only that: advice. There are more people like me out there, if you want to work for us, then Sean's advice is good.
My advice is what it took me several years to understand: Why do you want to work someplace where you are judged in some aspect you do not think you should be judged on? Move on and be happy.
And what's that old thing about tossing the first stone again?
P.S. The only thing that would bother me is if the keeper of the keys went back and removed the word "crap" from the article--whether or not it was appropriate, it is what he wrote.
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Thanks for posting those comments - though I must confess to being more curious about the -ve ones than the +ve !
I still do not understand why only the "Christians" are offended - shouldn't all religious people be ?!?!
As for - "Must be that second head I had added when my brain was split .." you sound like the stock market..
Lastly Steve - I could send you an email about this but want it to be for public consumption, so will post it here -
While SSC is (for the most part) the success that it is because of the teamwork that goes on here and the bright heads that collectively share their wisdom in response to the zillions of posts everyday - it is also what it is because of you - You are very fair and just - never afraid of speaking your mind!! You also put a lot of hard work into this site and it's definitely paid off! I was going through some old posts a few months ago when Frank Kallis remarked that SSC now has its 100,000th member - we all know what the count is now!!! So along with everyone else who's appreciative of your role, I add my kudos - "keep up the absolutely great work"!!
ps:Before GPF^... says it, I will - NO - I am not angling for a free t-shirt!
..oh and "keeper of the keys" - chiming with John when I say - "hope you don't edit anything from that article.."
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!**
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