October 3, 2014 at 9:14 am
jay-h (10/3/2014)
chrisn-585491 (10/3/2014)
One word: Java
Horrendous mess.
But you know what? They delivered on the cross platform problem. Nothing else installs on OS X, Windows and Linux with as few issues. JetBrains can create some decent IDEs that work well on all platforms. Pentaho can work better than SSIS in many cases. And Clojure may bring Lisp to the masses.
I'm not sure about that 'cross platform' except in advertising copy. We've got major apps that will only run on certain VERSIONS (forget platforms) of Java and won't even coexist on a machine. And it's not uncommon for a security patch to seriouslyl brake things.
I think that the joke was: "Write once. Test everywhere."
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 3, 2014 at 9:17 am
We've got major apps that will only run on certain VERSIONS (forget platforms) of Java and won't even coexist on a machine.
That's a developer issue that could occur on with any programming language or RDMS. How many folks aren't on SQL Server 2012/2014 due to vendor certification issues? How about apps that require certain DLL or C compiler to function/install?
October 3, 2014 at 9:23 am
chrisn-585491 (10/3/2014)
We've got major apps that will only run on certain VERSIONS (forget platforms) of Java and won't even coexist on a machine.
That's a developer issue that could occur on with any programming language or RDMS. How many folks aren't on SQL Server 2012/2014 due to vendor certification issues? How about apps that require certain DLL or C compiler to function/install?
It was what the JavaVM was supposed to solve. The fact that it didn't always was an issue for some.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 3, 2014 at 9:26 am
Rumors of SQL Servers' demise are greatly exaggerated... 😎
After working in IT for over 26 years, and seeing technologies come, go, come back, or just hang around for interminably longer periods that perhaps they should have, I'm convinced a mature, robust, ever-evolving and highly pervasive RDBMS like SQL Server is going to be around for quite some time.
About half of my time has been spent in consulting/contracting and if anything, shops will tend to diversify technologies - mixing various "proprietary" solutions with so-called "open source" solutions; but seldom does a company of any size or staying power completely shift from one technological foundation to another one, exclusively.
The one notable exception (which occurs infrequently) is when an organization must deprecate antiquated systems for which it makes NO sense to invest any more resources (human or capital).
Seriously, how many old IBM AS/400/iSeries shops still are investing in RPG applications? Many of us might be surprised to know it's an uncomfortable number of such shops that have put GUI front-ends on a morass of legacy RPG code. I began my career in the IBM mid-range world and STILL get emails from recruiters looking to fill posts in RPG shops. Oy!
I would, however, like to respectfully take issue with one proposition put forth in the article: Most IBM DB/2 experts did not get paid more than SQL Server DBA's/Developers, and if the author has some longitudinal data to support that claim, I'd LOVE to see it!
I made a transition from the IBM to Microsoft world between 1999-2002, and found the opposite to be the case.
Finally, too many shops of varying sizes, in too many industries use SQL Server - either fully or in conjunction with ORACLE (mostly) and other RDBMS platforms (including DB2/400/etc) and MySQL, and MS SQL stands up alongside or in comparison with those technologies. I currently work at a major research university in Florida (USF - servicing well over 40,000 students and 12,000 staff, faculty) and we are a multi-platform, heterogeneous environment , with NO plans to go exclusively to ORACLE or any other single technology.
Thank You,
Michael
October 3, 2014 at 9:27 am
Gary Varga (10/3/2014)
podmate (10/3/2014)
...MS has done well buying off all those college IT programs.True. Compounded by Oracle being inflexible and arrogant is what I heard. Too easy to believe, that one.
You forgot expensive. Oracle is pricing themselves out of the market for medium to medium-large sized businesses.
Based on what I am hearing from the people I work with who are involved in the purchase and licensing of MS software, Microsoft seems to be on the same road as Oracle in terms of pricing. Our MS licensing costs are going up constantly.
October 3, 2014 at 9:48 am
podmate (10/3/2014)
Gary Varga (10/3/2014)
podmate (10/3/2014)
...MS has done well buying off all those college IT programs.True. Compounded by Oracle being inflexible and arrogant is what I heard. Too easy to believe, that one.
You forgot expensive. Oracle is pricing themselves out of the market for medium to medium-large sized businesses.
Based on what I am hearing from the people I work with who are involved in the purchase and licensing of MS software, Microsoft seems to be on the same road as Oracle in terms of pricing. Our MS licensing costs are going up constantly.
Totally agree.
By "being inflexible and arrogant" I was referring to pricing. Not clear though, was it!?!?! 😉
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 3, 2014 at 10:04 am
seatedElephant (10/3/2014)
This is ringing a bell with me as I am just starting to feel comfortable with SQLServer and as though my knowledge is now beyond 'beginners' after several years using it. I think that SQLServer is quite widely used within the health service here in the U.K. probably as they favour Microsoft's tried and familiar products in the main. I don't think that is going to change anytime soon.Just widening out the conversation a little.... I live in a small town so jobs are a bit thinner on the ground but the university here is recruiting for a well payed Oracle, PHP developer. The money is good and I wonder if any of you would attempt go over to the other side for the right package? Do you see the your SQLServer specialist knowledge/skills and enjoyment of the product enough to keep you with SQLServer as long as there's a job for you?
I wouldn't just chase money. That's a losing game, but I have no issues working with Oracle, PHP, or other technologies. If they do the job and someone wants to pay me, sure. They're all interesting.
October 3, 2014 at 10:18 am
I've been using SQL Svr since v4.21, so I am a bit biased. Overall it has gotten better and better, but... many of the younger developers are focused on LAMP, postgreSQL and now NoSQL. All good products - if you know their limits. (many do not, drinking the coolaid)
My big concern with SQL Server is that they are raising the costs too fast relative to the added value. Enterprise can be too expensive, and the BI edition does not have many of the BI tools. They are sunsetting mirroring, when it is a great, easy way to handle redundancy. All bad decisions. SQL Server will most likely never be "perceived" as a full member of the enterprise class database group, so Microsoft should not really try to price it like it is.
And Java, used at the middle tier, the linux admins will secretly tell you that they have to bounce the middle tier boxes once a week to keep the systems running.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
October 3, 2014 at 10:24 am
Shame on you Steve for posting something out of context. Here is the link to the actual page:
http://www.mysql.com/why-mysql/marketshare
It clearly shows the graph is for 2008, not 2014. I wonder what the actual 2014 figures are like. I suspect SQL Server is now the leader.
October 3, 2014 at 10:30 am
LIKE! 😀
October 3, 2014 at 11:13 am
Based on contacts from recruiters I don't see SQL Server slowing down in my area of the world (New England).
I'll agree with others that MS has to be careful to maintain a price point that small to medium businesses can afford. I know it is going to hurt at my current employer when we upgrade R2 to 2014 in the next year or so. Fortunately we have the ability to consolidate some to help with the extra cost, but it is still going to hurt.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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October 3, 2014 at 11:18 am
I'm an 18 year veteran of SQL Server, and a data architect for my company.
This year, for the first time, I'm hearing of some serious balking from senior management at the proposed price structure for the next release of SQL Server, 2014. I am forced to consider offloading at least some of the tasks that SQL Server could do, onto other NOSQL or MySQL platforms to avoid having to license as many installs or as many cores. It is my great hope that Microsoft does not kill the goose that lays their gold eggs. Of all the OS and Service product lines that they've ever fielded, SQL Server has been THE consistent winner. Even when every other release of Windows falters, SQL Server rolls on.
It's healthy to explore technical alternatives. But to do so because of pricing and not because of technical excellence is a bitter pill.
Are you listening, Microsoft? Your evangelists are being asked to preach from another book because you're at risk of pricing yourself out of the market.
October 3, 2014 at 11:30 am
emmchild (10/3/2014)
Microsoft's current lack of a pay as you go strategy is caused this situation. No one wants to incur a massive capital expense for features that they might use when all they really want to do is use certain things more. MySql ceased to be a viable alternative the minute Oracle purchased the technology. Microsoft will execute on its cloud strategy but it will be too late for a several companies.
mariadb could be some insurance here, develop your stuff for mysql and make darn sure it will run on mariadb.
I'm getting interested in postgresql right now, but don't know much as of yet.
October 3, 2014 at 11:35 am
Gary Varga (10/3/2014)
chrisn-585491 (10/3/2014)
We've got major apps that will only run on certain VERSIONS (forget platforms) of Java and won't even coexist on a machine.
That's a developer issue that could occur on with any programming language or RDMS. How many folks aren't on SQL Server 2012/2014 due to vendor certification issues? How about apps that require certain DLL or C compiler to function/install?
It was what the JavaVM was supposed to solve. The fact that it didn't always was an issue for some.
I'm thinking that Java can genuinely be cross platform if the developers try hard enough, but Java will also not FORCE the developer to do so (jni, etc...).
October 3, 2014 at 11:38 am
mariadb could be some insurance here, develop your stuff for mysql and make darn sure it will run on mariadb.
MySQL is still OSS and has many more developers and support than mariadb. Oracle dares not to jack up MySQL, it's their best weapon to hold against Microsoft right now.
I'm getting interested in postgresql right now, but don't know much as of yet.
Grab some documentation and jump in. It's different, but yet curiously SQL. Keep a detailed notebook of your exploration.
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