May 28, 2010 at 8:28 am
TravisDBA (5/28/2010)
Stefan Krzywicki (5/28/2010)
Early in my career as a contractor I was told "This has to be done by next monday, I don't care how many hours it takes". I got it done by pulling some all-nighters and working the weekend. You should have seen the look on that manager's face when I handed him a timesheet for 100 hours that week. He never said that again.Yep, they want the dedication, but they don't want to pay for it. That is the primary reason that many companies outsource to India. They get very cheap labor and they work them around the clock. American workers just can't compete with that. 😀
I've found many companies end up paying more by outsourcing to India because of the inherant problems of working with people on the other side of the planet who speak a different primary language and have a different culture. They then end up bringing the development back in-house, with full time employees or contractors. Technology isn't really at the point yet where face-to-face meetings can be replaced. And there's always problems with outsourcing, even when the company is in the same town. Insourcing (hiring employees and contractors) is usually the better option in the long run.
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When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
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It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
May 28, 2010 at 8:51 am
Stefan Krzywicki (5/28/2010)
TravisDBA (5/28/2010)
Stefan Krzywicki (5/28/2010)
Early in my career as a contractor I was told "This has to be done by next monday, I don't care how many hours it takes". I got it done by pulling some all-nighters and working the weekend. You should have seen the look on that manager's face when I handed him a timesheet for 100 hours that week. He never said that again.Yep, they want the dedication, but they don't want to pay for it. That is the primary reason that many companies outsource to India. They get very cheap labor and they work them around the clock. American workers just can't compete with that. 😀
I've found many companies end up paying more by outsourcing to India because of the inherant problems of working with people on the other side of the planet who speak a different primary language and have a different culture. They then end up bringing the development back in-house, with full time employees or contractors. Technology isn't really at the point yet where face-to-face meetings can be replaced. And there's always problems with outsourcing, even when the company is in the same town. Insourcing (hiring employees and contractors) is usually the better option in the long run.
I couldn't agree more. Not to mention that it is not helping put money back into our economy either, which it sorely needs right now. If Obama can get one thing accomplished in his term as president, I sure hope he can push this one through. Stop outsourcing American jobs overseas now...:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
May 28, 2010 at 9:19 am
TravisDBA (5/28/2010)
I've found many companies end up paying more by outsourcing to India because of the inherant problems of working with people on the other side of the planet who speak a different primary language and have a different culture. They then end up bringing the development back in-house, with full time employees or contractors. Technology isn't really at the point yet where face-to-face meetings can be replaced. And there's always problems with outsourcing, even when the company is in the same town. Insourcing (hiring employees and contractors) is usually the better option in the long run.
I couldn't agree more. Not to mention that it is not helping put money back into our economy either, which it sorely needs right now. If Obama can get one thing accomplished in his term as president, I sure hope he can push this one through. Stop outsourcing American jobs overseas now...:-D
You know, I don't know that this needs any kind of legislation. Companies have been finding out these problems for a long time now and they're finally starting to learn. What I would like to see is a revision or elimination of H1B visas. The way they work right now they create indentured servants and depress the compensation. Either allow people to immigrate and work or don't, either way I'm fine with it. The middle ground is horrible for everyone involved except the companies who get forced labor at cheap prices.
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When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
May 28, 2010 at 9:25 am
You know, I don't know that this needs any kind of legislation. The middle ground is horrible for everyone involved except the companies who get forced labor at cheap prices.
This is where I disagree with you. Unless we enact laws that penalize companies from doing this they will continue to do it because of they can get cheap labor and work these people around the clock. It is hurting our American workforce as well as our economy because these people don't put their money back into our businesses, and we need to step up as a country and put a stop to it. For example, when is the last time you saw an Indian dining out in an American restaurant? The millions of people currently out of work in the IT field alone will thank us, I am sure of that. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
May 28, 2010 at 9:31 am
I'm not sure what you can do legally against companies just hiring people overseas. What you'll get is the movement more wholesale of work overseas. The company will open an office overseas and hire people directly.
It's a thorny problem, and I don't want to get into the political discussion (feel free to start a new thread in the "Anything Not About SQL" forum), but I do think that we can push back on companies, get the work done that we can for our bosses, and hope they see the value in having us close, and being productive.
May 28, 2010 at 9:42 am
TravisDBA (5/28/2010)[hr
Unless we enact laws that penalize companies from doing this they will continue to do it because of they can get cheap labor and work these people around the clock.
This is the last I'll say about it here as Steve's suggested this isn't the place for this kind of conversation. When the companies see what kind of product they get from cheap labor around the clock, they stop looking for it and find things that work. "Cheap labor" often ends up costing them more than the "expensive" local labor.
For example, when is the last time you saw an Indian dining out in an American restaurant?
Honestly? The last time I was eating in an American resturant. I've worked with great people from all over the world, I've worked with crappy people from all over the world too. The location is the biggest confounding factor I've seen. Too far=too little control over the end result and "too far" can be just the other end of your state.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
May 28, 2010 at 9:43 am
Steve Jones - Editor (5/28/2010)
I'm not sure what you can do legally against companies just hiring people overseas. What you'll get is the movement more wholesale of work overseas. The company will open an office overseas and hire people directly.It's a thorny problem, and I don't want to get into the political discussion (feel free to start a new thread in the "Anything Not About SQL" forum), but I do think that we can push back on companies, get the work done that we can for our bosses, and hope they see the value in having us close, and being productive.
Yep, close is the key.
Sorry to have strayed off topic.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
May 28, 2010 at 10:01 am
Sorry to have strayed off topic.
No problem guys, consider it closed. However, I have seen many threads stray off topic in this forum before, I have even heard it justified. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
May 28, 2010 at 10:08 am
No worries, and feel free to debate it in another thread. I'd like to try and keep this more on the topic of long hours, or avoiding them. Please feel free to start a new thread in another forum.
May 28, 2010 at 10:31 am
Done, this topic has been moved over to "Anything not SQL". It is a very important topic that I feel more people need to be aware of that affects our IT industry today more than anything else. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
June 1, 2010 at 8:36 am
Hours worked last week 0
Nice holiday 😛
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