September 22, 2015 at 6:14 am
ZZ, here's the challenge, we can't be contractors and want them to invest in us also. Well I guess we can, but it points out the tension. Why should an employer care about you remaining employable for instance? The only business reason is that they might lose you because you fear becoming unemployable (too much client specific knowledge, too little general knowledge of your area). I dont think many businesses worry about that. Should they? Ah, that's a discussion!
September 22, 2015 at 11:12 am
If you're a contractor, then you're free to work for other clients, and you invest in yourself by self training and strategically choosing your gigs.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 8, 2015 at 4:50 pm
the issue I have with the counter offer is that with a good boss / manager, the options available too you in the company should have been discussed before getting to the point of interviewing for another post.
if opportunities gomto those threatening to leave, do you really want to go through that process every couple of years? And if you're the loyal one, how quickly will your loyalty be eroded if the rewards of your loyalty are less pay, training and opportunities, regardless of your and your coworkers performance?
October 9, 2015 at 10:22 am
al-868576 (10/8/2015)
the issue I have with the counter offer is that with a good boss / manager, the options available too you in the company should have been discussed before getting to the point of interviewing for another post.if opportunities gomto those threatening to leave, do you really want to go through that process every couple of years? And if you're the loyal one, how quickly will your loyalty be eroded if the rewards of your loyalty are less pay, training and opportunities, regardless of your and your coworkers performance?
Absolutely!
"...should have been discussed before getting to the point of interviewing for another post."
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
October 15, 2015 at 10:20 am
I recently left a position I had been in for 6 years - as SQL DBA, Developer and Support - for a new challenge, a bit of extra money, a new environment, and a completely different sector. I'd become stale and wasn't really progressing - at least I felt I was - and the company seemed reluctant to fully embrace SQL Server (SSRS, SSAS, replication etc.) with me being the only "SQL expert".
The company I was leaving made me a hugely generous offer to stay, but I turned the offer down determined in my mind that I needed a change.
It's six months later now and I have since left the company I moved to as I hated the new job and I am now working self-employed (away from home, which I don't like), stuck in a six month contract, as a SQL Developer and I'm in another role I hate.
If only I could turn the clock back to that counter offer, eh?
October 15, 2015 at 10:27 am
lol, the problems you see, they exist everywhere. People who are unhappy in their jobs tend to be unhappy, period. You are likely to have better results by doing your best to improve things around you. I have 25 years experience in IT, it took me a long time to learn this.
October 15, 2015 at 11:36 am
Dale, all you can do is evaluate and go for what looks best overall. Sometimes it works out, sometimes not. I think the hardest part is getting over it and deciding to change again. Confidence is lower then. It's one reason why I'm a believer in a hard eval at the end of 90 days. If I'm not comfortable/happy by then it's unlikely to get better, so start looking while paying the bills.
October 15, 2015 at 11:39 am
Dale Turley (10/15/2015)
I recently left a position I had been in for 6 years - as SQL DBA, Developer and Support - for a new challenge, a bit of extra money, a new environment, and a completely different sector. I'd become stale and wasn't really progressing - at least I felt I was - and the company seemed reluctant to fully embrace SQL Server (SSRS, SSAS, replication etc.) with me being the only "SQL expert".The company I was leaving made me a hugely generous offer to stay, but I turned the offer down determined in my mind that I needed a change.
It's six months later now and I have since left the company I moved to as I hated the new job and I am now working self-employed (away from home, which I don't like), stuck in a six month contract, as a SQL Developer and I'm in another role I hate.
If only I could turn the clock back to that counter offer, eh?
Maybe this is one example of what is meant by: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." 🙂
However, an often quoted survey states that 50 to 80 percent of employees who accept a counter offer leave (voluntarily or involuntarily) within 6 months.
So if you could roll back time to the morning when you initially decided to quit your original job, would you:
- Turn in your resignation, and then accept whatever counter offer is offered?
- Stay only long enough to line up a better next job?
- Stay and try to "fix" things that you feel you didn't like in the first place?
- Stay and lower your expectations about what you want from a job?
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 15, 2015 at 11:51 am
Dale, et. al.,
Speaking only for myself this long running thread just brings to mind the fact that the thing I've never been able to do is direct my career as I'd like. I've listened to speakers talk about directing your career by doing things like writing technical blog posts (I've done that), posting technical comments online (I've done Twitter and Facebook, and sometimes even LinkedIn, so I've done that). I've listened to books-on-tape from excellent career coaches, etc. I've learned a lot and tried to apply much of it.
But so far, when all is said and done, the last 3 jobs I've gotten I got simply through job listings, either in newspapers or online. No amount of networking has helped me. No one I've interviewed with has ever mentioned a tweet, blog post, or anything I've done. Why is that? Why has all of this career management advise resulted in nothing?
Bear in mind YMMV.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
October 16, 2015 at 2:20 am
@GeorgeCopeland "People who are unhappy in their jobs tend to be unhappy, period..."
Very true - happy is relative, I suppose. When I say I was happy - and I was happy for several years - what I actually mean is that I could stand being there... One big thing that has changed, which I believe is a large factor in being unhappy, is that I have moved from a small to medium size company to a large company to an even larger company; I've come to the realisation that large companies and working in large teams are not for me. I prefer the smaller, close-knit teams.
@Andy Warren "...It's one reason why I'm a believer in a hard eval at the end of 90 days..."
I'd love to do that, but there is that little devil at the back of my brain that tells me to many short stays at companies will not look good on my CV...
@Eric M Russell "Maybe this is one example of what is meant by: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
...So if you could roll back time to the morning when you initially decided to quit your original job, would you..."
And by the saying: the grass isn't always greener.
With hindsight I would stay, maybe still handing in my notice to let them know I was serious about the complaints I had, but accepting an offer to stay. The offer they made actually addressed some of the things I was unhappy about, but not all of them. What I've found out afterwards is that every company and position sounds great in an interview (much like myself...) but the reality is a lot different.
@Rod at work "...I've never been able to do is direct my career as I'd like..."
Again, very true. The other thing I've realised is that sometimes I want to do something - SSAS, C# development etc. - which looks great and interesting while reading manuals and playing around on test boxes, but doing it as a job day-in-day-out is something completely different.
October 16, 2015 at 7:26 am
As for the option of sticking around and "fixing" your current job, unless you're in a position of influence, I find that ideal outcome to be plausible... but unlikely. It's been my observation that often times someone with bright ideas must actually move on to other things, before their ideas are taken seriously and accepted.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 16, 2015 at 7:44 am
Eric: So things don't get fixed at the current job, it will be any different at the next??? Not really.
October 16, 2015 at 7:59 am
Eric M Russell (10/16/2015)
As for the option of sticking around and "fixing" your current job, unless you're in a position of influence, I find that ideal outcome to be plausible... but unlikely. It's been my observation that often times someone with bright ideas must actually move on to other things, before their ideas are taken seriously and accepted.
I've found there is a limited time with a new company that suggestions are taken seriously, after that you become part of the furniture.
When I moved to a new company for the first month or two they seemed very interested in what "the new guy" had to say and what things I could change for the better. After a couple of months (there was a lot to change) they started to resort to the "him again" mindset when I mentioned something like the file size increment of their databases and I got the "Yep, we'll look at that when we have time, but for now..." routine.
October 16, 2015 at 8:21 am
Eric M Russell (10/16/2015)
As for the option of sticking around and "fixing" your current job, unless you're in a position of influence, I find that ideal outcome to be plausible... but unlikely. It's been my observation that often times someone with bright ideas must actually move on to other things, before their ideas are taken seriously and accepted.
I really agree with this.
October 16, 2015 at 8:28 am
GeorgeCopeland (10/16/2015)
Eric: So things don't get fixed at the current job, it will be any different at the next??? Not really.
So after an initial honeymoon period, even a smart guy can be seen as just another "old cow" ?
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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