June 20, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Steve,
Point well taken - we're discussing 'core' skills.
I only give two "point well takens" a day, so that's it for now.
😉
___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
June 21, 2008 at 5:21 am
Phil Factor (6/20/2008)
[p] that inspires them to expect, and prepare for, the worst. ....., whereas the exceptional DBA scents trouble everywhere, and prepares for it. It is that instinct that drives them on to assimilate the skills, and put in place the procedures to meet every eventuality, and head off problems before they happen.[/p]
I am agree with SSC-Enthusiastic (Phil Factor)
June 21, 2008 at 1:54 pm
After losing a 10 minute reply to some kind of session timeout :w00t:, I'm going to just brief it now.
Great, true, and positive stuff has already been posted.
I'm a .NET developer for a consulting firm, and I work with various sized clients. Some are small enough to not even have an IT department, much less a DBA. Some have a DBA for their SQL Servers, and some have a DBA who has never worked with SQL Server. A few projects are not SQL Server at all. :angry:
Some of my apps integrate with existing applications, and some of them are totally ground up applications. So every project I get has different ability requirements.
The 2 skills I can think of that haven't already been spoken to are...
1. The ability to establish a 2-way trust with the customer's people that I will be working with. Not just the end users, but the overseers as well.
2. The ability to leave behind the necessary documentation for troubleshooting, maintaining, updating, and possibly even recreating the system from scratch if necessary.
I also really liked the following list...
eileenh (6/20/2008)
A DBA can find technical facts, rules, methods, etc. in a book. Here is what he or she needs to have internalized:1. Work ethic; Stay with it until the problem is solved; No shrugging and saying "I don't know and I don't care"
2. Creativity; You can always think of another possible solution if your previous idea did not work.
3. Empathy; Make it work like you would want it to work if you were the end user. Have it make the user's job a little easier and more error free.
4. Integrity; Treat every database like it were your very own, like your own life (and livelyhood) depends on it's security and accuracy.
Eileen Hess
Thank you Steve Jones for another stimulating conversation.
June 21, 2008 at 5:18 pm
You're welcome and glad you liked it.
Some great comments in here.
June 22, 2008 at 2:43 pm
A big part of the DBA's skill set will be dictated by the job description itself- i.e. the workplace and installation context. For example, I've seen department installations managed by a single DBA/developer where a very bareboned skillset was sufficient. Back-up and restore, basic sql querying, basic database design and basic client support were the main skills required. On the other hand, for large and complex multi server installations, a skill-set that is both wider and deeper is required. For example, this may involve monitoring replication, database mirroring or clustering, optimising large and complex queries, advanced dimensional design etc etc etc
June 23, 2008 at 9:15 am
My favorite quote regrading any job:
"Your hard skills will get you hired, but your lack of soft skills will get you fired." I think that good soft skills will set you ahead of the pack, with communication skills being the most important.
I'm a developer who, as many of you, has served as a DBA. Here is my dream team:
The DBA
1. Installations
2. Backup/restore
3. Security
4. Performance monitoring
5. Troubleshooting
The developer (SQL skills)
1. DB design (includes normalization, indexing, RI, etc.)
2. T-SQL skills
3. Query optimization
4. Should have basic understanding of 1-5 above
I don't expect the DBA to have advanced T-SQL skills. I do expect the DBA and developer to work together to solve performance problems. The DBA should be the leader here. It is his/her responsibility to make sure that everything is up and running. They shouldn't be held responsible, however, for performance problems caused by crappy code (they better know how to show where the bottleneck is coming from, though).
John Deupree
June 23, 2008 at 10:09 am
I agree with these comments. I would like to point out the difference between "troubleshooting" and "problem solving". From my observation troubleshooting can be learned via flowcharts, experience, memorization. Problem solving, on the other hand, implies you can solve a problem in a new situation that is unfamiliar. A good problem solver knows how to use all the tools at hand - and maybe even devise new ones to diagnose the real problem. A poor problem solver can only be taught troubleshooting techniques. I am not sure you can teach problem solving. At least I have worked with two within the last year where they could learn the steps to troubleshoot at one degree or another but they didn't have the ability to problem solve - thus I think they will not go far in dba land. I think the admin side needs this even more than the dev side.
You can demonstrate good problem solving skills even has a junior dba so it remains at the top of my list txtPost_CommentEmoticon(':hehe:');
:hehe:
June 23, 2008 at 11:46 am
I would add to this understanding of not only GUI interface but also command line. not having command line skills i think can be a weakness when the chips are down and the GUI is not working...
June 24, 2008 at 9:10 am
godoyd (6/23/2008)
I would add to this understanding of not only GUI interface but also command line. not having command line skills i think can be a weakness when the chips are down and the GUI is not working...
I can't comprehend the number of people that I work with/for/whatever that don't know how to search for a file.
CD C:DIR *.MDF /S /P
ATBCharles Kincaid
June 24, 2008 at 9:28 am
It does require an understanding of the Command language (formerly DOS). Do they even teach that any more?
June 24, 2008 at 10:31 am
I think its only taught in backwater electives in community colleges.
June 24, 2008 at 10:36 am
... not backwater ... mainstream on the web if you know where to look ...
http://www.ss64.com/nt/index.html
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
June 24, 2008 at 10:45 am
June 24, 2008 at 11:10 am
I am talking about SQL Server emergency administration tasks when the SSMS gui is not functioning.... You never want to be in that situation but i have found myself as a developer in that place when the DBA left the organization and we had trouble staffing the position...
Just a thought...
June 24, 2008 at 2:36 pm
3NF Yes! Some one said "Database normalization"!
You've heard the saying, "Normalize until it hurts - de-normalize until it works!". Ok, great starting point, but from my experience DONT de-normalize unless forced into it. Explore other options first. If you are experiencing performance problems, and think its related to a well normalized database, it may actually be a poorly written query. Make sure all of your queries are well formed (no unwanted recursion, correct joins, etc.). Poor performance might even be the lack of an index. Lots of things to explore before denormalizing a database.
The main complaint you'll hear from developers might be "too many tables". Ok, so create some views for them that make sense to simplify the SQL statements.
This is a skill I wish every developer had as well as every DBA.
P.S. Hey developers, go easy on your DBAs, believe it or not they play for the same team!
DBAs, Play nice!
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