March 3, 2019 at 9:05 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Android Car
March 3, 2019 at 11:18 pm
I would suggest incorporating a high-end AI diagnostics tool that would very quickly run through a series of tests and error-checks when you start the car. Much like the check list that the pilot goes through before taking off.
March 4, 2019 at 12:49 am
My suggestion would be to get in touch with Syvecs / Bosch for an S6 / MS 6.4 ECU or something like this, depending on the car I guess 😉 and start looking for that unicorn that can make a decent map. I also would prefer a Hollinger box than manual shift but I guess that's partly down to what kind of noise suits you.
The key question here would be: Is the ECU Android part completely separated (as right now mostly it is with CAN Bus) from on-board electronics or not? If not well then I know the first thing I wouldn't touch with a torch stick is such a car.
I consider security in cars non-existent yet unless OEMs crypting their engine maps could be considered "security".
March 4, 2019 at 3:55 am
I am looking forward to electric cars running essentially as individual packets across a network of roads, but I am not happy that a company like Google is doing it. I don't need to give Google any more information about what I do and when I do it. Google is not good for us.
However, all modern cars are phoning home and tattling anyway.
In the end, I will love big Brother.
March 4, 2019 at 7:54 am
Can you imagine replacing your car as often as your Android/ios phone??
Seriously cars (to the degree that they use electronics... there is already far to much flaky electronics in modern cars) should be running essentially a bare bones industrial control type operating system. One that doesn't change every few years (a feature on one of my Android apps stopped working this weekend because of an API change by Google finally hitting)
Diagnostics are necessary but not as cool as they sound in the promotion (Windows, and most all computers have diagnostics, and still there are huge numbers of unidentified problems). The current OBDC diagnostics, while helpful, is far from able to actually diagnose problems (mechanical issues are pretty much not diagnosed at all). Even electronic errors (such as "O2 senser #3 error") only opens a window to a huge number possible problems, many unfortunately 'solved' by the dealer replacing parts until something works. There is often no way to actually test the individual parts.
My wife has an Android based camera. While it's nice to be able to run apps (including photo editing apps) on it, it's just simply too slow ... especially as waking up from sleep/or off. Dedicated camera OS will go from cold to ready in under a second
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
March 4, 2019 at 9:41 am
One of these days China or Mexico is going to disrupt the market with a no frills electric car for $12,000.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 4, 2019 at 10:32 am
jay-h - Monday, March 4, 2019 7:54 AMMy wife has an Android based camera. While it's nice to be able to run apps (including photo editing apps) on it, it's just simply too slow ... especially as waking up from sleep/or off. Dedicated camera OS will go from cold to ready in under a second
What camera does she have that runs an Android OS? I'm a camera person, but I generally stick with Nikon and Olympus at this point. I haven't kept up with the features and capabilities of other models.
March 4, 2019 at 11:00 am
DinoRS - Monday, March 4, 2019 12:49 AMMy suggestion would be to get in touch with Syvecs / Bosch for an S6 / MS 6.4 ECU or something like this, depending on the car I guess 😉 and start looking for that unicorn that can make a decent map. I also would prefer a Hollinger box than manual shift but I guess that's partly down to what kind of noise suits you.The key question here would be: Is the ECU Android part completely separated (as right now mostly it is with CAN Bus) from on-board electronics or not? If not well then I know the first thing I wouldn't touch with a torch stick is such a car.
I consider security in cars non-existent yet unless OEMs crypting their engine maps could be considered "security".
While I don't disagree - I think that concept has already jumped the shark. As of 2 weeks ago I picked up a new car I am leasing, which came with an App. The app in question allows me to lock/unlock, and/or start the car, pretty much from anywhere (it is NOT using direct connections to convey these commands, so I could be hundreds of miles away). That car isn't running Android, but it might as well be, since the app in question is both on IOS and Android. Besides that - it also has full access to all on-board diagnostics, etc.
The API is already exposed, so frankly there's no telling what else it has access to. I'd also love to say that I could turn down that car, but EVERY new car that particular manufacturer has these features, which cannot be "turned off". I happen to drive a gen 2 hybrid, but my wife's definitely NOT hybrid SUV has the exact same feature set.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
March 4, 2019 at 12:07 pm
LightVader - Monday, March 4, 2019 10:32 AMjay-h - Monday, March 4, 2019 7:54 AMMy wife has an Android based camera. While it's nice to be able to run apps (including photo editing apps) on it, it's just simply too slow ... especially as waking up from sleep/or off. Dedicated camera OS will go from cold to ready in under a secondWhat camera does she have that runs an Android OS? I'm a camera person, but I generally stick with Nikon and Olympus at this point. I haven't kept up with the features and capabilities of other models.
It's a few year old Samsung, it's almost like a phone with a real zoom lens and no phone. Pretty convenient for image sharing with Google drive and services over Wifi. Just like a phone you can read email, play games, browse internet etc.
I have a submersible, ruggedized Olympus TG, and a Nikon 'superzoom' (60x) 'bridge' camera.
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
March 4, 2019 at 1:22 pm
Having had a few months experience driving a Tesla, and another Tesla and Ac Chevy Bolt driven by a other family members, I suspect the OS is a variant of Android, highly customized of course to the task at hand. One of the features with all-electric cars is that they are inherently simpler and thus require less maintenance, and have fewer failure points. It also appears they have made basic tasks like steering and braking such that you have manual control if the CPU goes to sleep, you still have manual control. Rotate the tires every 10K and that's about it. And the software is updated regularly - sometimes it works better, sometimes not.
The biggest issue seems to be the limited range, requiring more frequent charging. You do not want to run the battery completly flat, as that can leave you stranded and at the mercies of a towing company, or Tesla if that's the car you drive. However I managed a recent 2600 mile road trip with no excitement, and am planning a few more in the year ahead.
Wendell
Colorful Colorado
You can't see the view if you don't climb the mountain!
March 4, 2019 at 1:42 pm
WendellB - Monday, March 4, 2019 1:22 PMHaving had a few months experience driving a Tesla, and another Tesla and Ac Chevy Bolt driven by a other family members, I suspect the OS is a variant of Android, highly customized of course to the task at hand. One of the features with all-electric cars is that they are inherently simpler and thus require less maintenance, and have fewer failure points. It also appears they have made basic tasks like steering and braking such that you have manual control if the CPU goes to sleep, you still have manual control. Rotate the tires every 10K and that's about it. And the software is updated regularly - sometimes it works better, sometimes not.The biggest issue seems to be the limited range, requiring more frequent charging. You do not want to run the battery completly flat, as that can leave you stranded and at the mercies of a towing company, or Tesla if that's the car you drive. However I managed a recent 2600 mile road trip with no excitement, and am planning a few more in the year ahead.
This is not so much of a discussion of electric drive but of electronic controls, applicable to any car.
Conceptually, electric drive is simpler though there are still quite a few potential failure points primarily in the control systems. Nonetheless locomotives and large offroad trucks successfully use electric drive (with diesel generation)
Tesla certainly has not achieved a high Consumers' reliability rating, in fact it's quite low. but the biggest current issue is the battery. A while back the price was about 27K, I don't know that has changed much. This is not a problem under warranty, but potentially devastating to the resale value, as any potential buyer will be factoring that risk into the resale value much as some exotic high performance cars drop like a rock when factory coverage expires. But even a blown engine on a Porsche can be replaced for about 12-14K which is miles away from the hit for a drive battery.
As I had mentioned earlier, I would be much more comfortable with a system based on industrial automation controls rather than a general purpose consumer OS.
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
March 4, 2019 at 1:49 pm
The car companies want to get in the data collection business as much as Google and Facebook already are. This is not good news for consumers, especially, car enthusiasts, as no doubt, one's driving style would not meet with the nanny's approval. This is not a means of providing extra value and convenience to the customer; but of gaining more behavioral data from the customer, which can be analyzed and sold.
March 4, 2019 at 5:06 pm
The electronics (Nav unit, phone hands-free, etc.) on my car (2013 Nissan Altima) are horrible. Buggy, difficult to use, mind-numbingly stupid limitations, etc. It makes me rather suspect of having more and more things on the car controlled by electronics (though, I suppose it might be helpful in separating the wheat from the chaff in the marketplace).
When I first got my car I was disappointed in how hard it was to keep the car on a straight path because there seemed to be little to no driving feedback through the steering wheel -- I had to rely on visual cues only which made doing anything else (like glancing at the nav unit) tricky since a road-surface issue could send the car off-course very quickly. I complained to the service mechanic about this and he told me that my car has electronic steering -- drive by wire -- so there is no mechanical feedback from the road.
This was disappointing but later it occurred to me -- what if the electrical system shorts out while I'm driving? Do I just crash? It worried me for awhile, given the state of the other electronics in the car, but I finally looked it up online and apparently there is a fail-safe. There is a mechanical steering shaft which is normally disengaged from the steering wheel by an electric clutch -- if the power fails, the clutch fails and the steering wheel is coupled to the steering shaft. One can only hope that on other safety related features they do a better job than they do on their convenience-related electronics.
March 4, 2019 at 5:09 pm
Finally someone in the tech industry who gets it! Too many have drunk the Cool-aide I'm afraid.
Even simple things like throttle by wire are susceptible to varying degrees of lag (from personal experience). I would hate think what would happen to the controls of your car when simultaneously a passenger decides to wind down the window, another passenger changes the music via spotify, the GPS decides to re-calculate the route and the driver needs to quickly accelerate and merge into traffic.....
And then we start talking about autonomous...... As we already know, every incident that has occurred when people trust autonomous driving in every day life has resulted in panic media. While I do understand that at its full efficiency, autonomous driving will save more lives than not, all it will take is some high profile incidents and the main stream media will be all over it (rightly, or wrongly, but more than likely, wrongly). This will result in snap reactions from government bodies, which in turn will result in near commercial aircraft levels of maintenance requirements (and its associated financial costs).
March 5, 2019 at 5:44 am
lnoland - Monday, March 4, 2019 5:06 PMThe electronics (Nav unit, phone hands-free, etc.) on my car (2013 Nissan Altima) are horrible. Buggy, difficult to use, mind-numbingly stupid limitations, etc. It makes me rather suspect of having more and more things on the car controlled by electronics (though, I suppose it might be helpful in separating the wheat from the chaff in the marketplace).When I first got my car I was disappointed in how hard it was to keep the car on a straight path because there seemed to be little to no driving feedback through the steering wheel -- I had to rely on visual cues only which made doing anything else (like glancing at the nav unit) tricky since a road-surface issue could send the car off-course very quickly. I complained to the service mechanic about this and he told me that my car has electronic steering -- drive by wire -- so there is no mechanical feedback from the road.
This was disappointing but later it occurred to me -- what if the electrical system shorts out while I'm driving? Do I just crash? It worried me for awhile, given the state of the other electronics in the car, but I finally looked it up online and apparently there is a fail-safe. There is a mechanical steering shaft which is normally disengaged from the steering wheel by an electric clutch -- if the power fails, the clutch fails and the steering wheel is coupled to the steering shaft. One can only hope that on other safety related features they do a better job than they do on their convenience-related electronics.
Interestingly a survey a while back indicated that drivers with built in Nav units still preferred to use their phone or a dedicated GPS.
Electric steering is a bit of a mess. It was especially funny watching the automotive review press trying to sound positive ('road feel is almost as good as hydraulic steering').. It's really not as good. However it's a product of political policy, hydraulic steering uses slightly more gas (no individual owner would even notice the difference) but the automakers are going head over heels to gain every fraction (because of CAFE standards) regardless of whether it's not as good, less reliable or it costs more (since they're all under the same gun, the costs go back to the consumers).
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
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