September 18, 2016 at 6:03 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The 10X Programmer
September 19, 2016 at 12:05 am
and how you utilize the people working for you.
..and enable them. The problem might not be the staff...
September 19, 2016 at 12:57 am
This reminds me of the model for programmers in Fred Brooks' 'The Mythical Man Month'.
He is of the opinion that programmers should be trained and treated as consultant surgeons. There shouldn't be many of them, but they should be highly trained, highly paid, extremely good at what they do (programming) and all of the related work (documentation etc.) should be offloaded to ancillary staff who work with/under the superstar programmer.
I don't know whether the trait of being a superstar programmer is a personality thing (say, for a talented coder with Asperger's Syndrome who has the drive to get what they are working finished regardless), or an age-thing (the programmers that I've met who closest fit the 10x programmer title have tended to be in their twenties with no family, house or other, ahem, distraction) or something else again.
Then again, I haven't programmed a compilable language [1] since the turn of millenium, so it is very possible that the profile of the typical programmer (if there ever was one) has changed in the 30 years' that I have worked/played with computers.
[1] Do In-Memory OLTP tables qualify...?
September 19, 2016 at 1:30 am
One of the biggest misnomers is the term "10x Developer" as to have one you need another developer who struggles to manage 1x but deals with all the distractions. Let's be honest, which one will get all the kudos and which one will be most missed by the business if they left?
Yes, there are better AND more productive coders but coding is just one aspect of the job in reality. I long for the days when I coded all day but now I provide a much more valuable service.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
September 19, 2016 at 7:23 am
"Given the state of questions I see asked on SQLServerCentral and other sites, it definitely seems that there are plenty of developers being paid to produce poorly written T-SQL code."
Wow, what a great way to stifle questions. Here I thought we had a forum where we could freely ask anything and not worry about being labeled stupid. Was I wrong? Seriously, if I ask a question about THIS then it doesn't mean I don't know anything about THAT. And the person that seems to have all the answers to all the questions may really just be a grumpy old programmer that studies hard but still can't figure out simple logic.
I've known people that others think are 10X programmers. Yes they can code like the wind. But then the rest of us have to come in from behind and fix all the bugs. So do I believe there truly is a 10X programmer? No.
September 19, 2016 at 7:24 am
Gary Varga (9/19/2016)
but coding is just one aspect of the job in reality.
So true.
September 19, 2016 at 7:38 am
There are definitely people who are better at what they do than others in their field. It isn't just programmers or DBAs.
However, 10x comes across as "more quantity", and software should really be about "more quality". I worked with someone who once programmed at a utility company where 10 lines of code per month was looked at as excessive. They were very cautious about introducing new bugs. I have also worked with people (and still do) who made it their life's work to get others to work hard while they socialized. The people I most enjoy working with are those who work hard, produce quality work, and a bunch of it, all the while helping others to improve their work and knowledge. There are less people in this group, but I have been fortunate to work with more than a few in my life.
I interpret what Steve is saying as being a mix of quantity and quality. Clearly managing "more systems" is quantity, and clearly Steve is constantly talking about quality. The best is when we produce more, and do so with better quality than our peers.
I am willing to bet that a large percentage of people who frequent SSC fall in the group that does both. I am also of the opinion that we are all subject to external limits (management and other) more often than our internal limits. We manage our internal limits by researching, learning, experimenting and asking.
Dave
September 19, 2016 at 7:48 am
Iwas Bornready (9/19/2016)
"Given the state of questions I see asked on SQLServerCentral and other sites, it definitely seems that there are plenty of developers being paid to produce poorly written T-SQL code."Wow, what a great way to stifle questions. Here I thought we had a forum where we could freely ask anything and not worry about being labeled stupid. Was I wrong?
No, and Steve was not saying that. There are lots of developers being paid to produce poor code. Look at the state of software today! How many times has Adobe Flash been upgraded this year, this month, this week? Java? Windows? Those are just the high profile bugs, we all know there are far more applications and tools out there with holes you can drive a foreign government hacking team through, and have time to meet for lunch afterwards. SQL Injection is still one of the most common paths a threat can take advantage of. We all know this.
One of the biggest issues with today's PC BS is that people take everything personally. You are an active member of this forum, and I presume the site, so I would assume that you are more towards the "better" side than the alternative. It sounds like you have some challenging people on your team. That sucks. We all have had to deal with that.
Steve, and pretty much everyone that contributes on SSC, are here to help. The only typical "negative" response I see to questions here is "have you googled it". That is far better than a lot of sites.
Dave
September 19, 2016 at 8:18 am
Sean Redmond (9/19/2016)
This reminds me of the model for programmers in Fred Brooks' 'The Mythical Man Month'.He is of the opinion that programmers should be trained and treated as consultant surgeons. There shouldn't be many of them, but they should be highly trained, highly paid, extremely good at what they do (programming) and all of the related work (documentation etc.) should be offloaded to ancillary staff who work with/under the superstar programmer.
I don't know whether the trait of being a superstar programmer is a personality thing (say, for a talented coder with Asperger's Syndrome who has the drive to get what they are working finished regardless), or an age-thing (the programmers that I've met who closest fit the 10x programmer title have tended to be in their twenties with no family, house or other, ahem, distraction) or something else again.
Then again, I haven't programmed a compilable language [1] since the turn of millenium, so it is very possible that the profile of the typical programmer (if there ever was one) has changed in the 30 years' that I have worked/played with computers.
[1] Do In-Memory OLTP tables qualify...?
That's interesting. I think in Brook's era, this might have been more possible. I think it's certainly possible in smaller, well funded environments. Get smart people and treat them well.
I suspect the 10x programmers exist mostly because of the chef problem. As we've grown in numbers, we get less and less qualified people. That's the nature of the world. What we haven't done is really work on raising the average bar.
September 19, 2016 at 8:19 am
Gary Varga (9/19/2016)
One of the biggest misnomers is the term "10x Developer" as to have one you need another developer who struggles to manage 1x but deals with all the distractions. Let's be honest, which one will get all the kudos and which one will be most missed by the business if they left?Yes, there are better AND more productive coders but coding is just one aspect of the job in reality. I long for the days when I coded all day but now I provide a much more valuable service.
I don't think 10x refers to just coding. It's the entire value/benefit from individual 1 over the average (or others).
September 19, 2016 at 8:21 am
Iwas Bornready (9/19/2016)
"Given the state of questions I see asked on SQLServerCentral and other sites, it definitely seems that there are plenty of developers being paid to produce poorly written T-SQL code."Wow, what a great way to stifle questions. Here I thought we had a forum where we could freely ask anything and not worry about being labeled stupid. Was I wrong? Seriously, if I ask a question about THIS then it doesn't mean I don't know anything about THAT. And the person that seems to have all the answers to all the questions may really just be a grumpy old programmer that studies hard but still can't figure out simple logic.
I've known people that others think are 10X programmers. Yes they can code like the wind. But then the rest of us have to come in from behind and fix all the bugs. So do I believe there truly is a 10X programmer? No.
Sorry you took it like that. There wasn't any implication about specific questions or specific people. There's certainly no aim at you (or anyone) being labeled as stupid.
Not knowing an answer or knowing how to write great code doesn't make you stupid. It might be ignorance, which is why you should ask questions and learn. I think far too many people won't want to admit or accept they've written poor quality code.
Ask questions and get better. That's what I preach and why this site exists.
September 19, 2016 at 8:22 am
djackson 22568 (9/19/2016)
However, 10x comes across as "more quantity", and software should really be about "more quality".
...
Yes, this. It's not LOC or some simple metric.
I interpret what Steve is saying as being a mix of quantity and quality. Clearly managing "more systems" is quantity, and clearly Steve is constantly talking about quality. The best is when we produce more, and do so with better quality than our peers.
It's productivity. That's code that works, with very few bugs, and meets specs. It's interacting and communicating with clients (end users, PMs, etc., whoever you deal with), and it's helping the entire group be better.
September 19, 2016 at 8:25 am
Any programmer will be X times more efficient when given an assignment that matches their skillset, a clear set of specifications, sufficient managmement/QA/DevOps support, and sufficiently sized blocks of uninterrupted time.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
September 19, 2016 at 8:45 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/19/2016)
...I don't think 10x refers to just coding. It's the entire value/benefit from individual 1 over the average (or others).
I understand. And your viewpoint, being from you, doesn't surprise me either but when many people refer to the 10x Uber Programmers that is EXACTLY what they mean. Which is most unfortunate.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
September 19, 2016 at 8:47 am
Eric M Russell (9/19/2016)
Any programmer will be X times more efficient when given an assignment that matches their skillset, a clear set of specifications, sufficient managmement/QA/DevOps support, and sufficiently sized blocks of uninterrupted time.
Not any programmer. But many more than those currently considered a 10x Programmer.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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